preparedness What a great thread! The last few months ( since I bought a laptop) have been an extraordinary learning curve for me and much thanks to this site. Trying to grasp how the economy is so precariously balanced on growth and how growth is so dependent on fossil fuels and how fuels are running out and now the climate. Sometimes it is all I can do but turn the music up loud as I dissolve myself in tending the garden. As long as climate change looks on us kindly here with adequate rainfall I know I will have enough food to survive but I have an uncontrollable urge to tell others. And frustratingly no-one around me is doing much. Even though I believe we have some years before climate or oil create a crucial change to my way of life, I now am beginning to see that the economy could collapse at any time. This scares the shit out of me. That means even if there is oil, I wouldn’t have money to buy it, or the new veggie enclosure, spade shovel etc. because the money was kept in a bank that collapsed. Violence is the worst possible outcome and I do believe that keeping a positive attitude is important because I understand that our thoughts influence our reality. I believe that if my town Kyogle could wake up and address at least some of these issues and start to plan for a future of sustainability and independence, we could thrive through this. If everyone was actively engaged in meaningful activity that benefited the whole community then there would be no need for escapism and depression , and violence would be reduced. We need to encourage people to relearn the old skills. Get biodiversity back onto farms, relearn working with wood and metals, fixing and patching, bottling, shoe making, I don’t know there is so much…. I would like to somehow start the wheel turning here. Not sure how. Maybe some video nights to start with. Sonya I don’t know what “The Power of Community “is but Id like to see it. Where do I find a copy? Any helpful ideas would be appreciated.
Greeny, I agree that it all can seem pretty overwhelming! We're up against a lot... If you can find it, read "Escaping the Matrix" by Richard Moore. Dodgy edtiting, typos, etc., but a very interesting and wholistic perspective on what is and has been going on, tying together history, economics, globalism, the environment, etc. The first half is utterly depressing, but the second half of the book points toward some possible routes to solutions. I agree with you too about the impending economic collapse- the whole system is one giant ponzi scheme! I keep hoping for the market to go up enough that I can liquidate my 'assets' and pay off our mortgage. In the meantime we're working toward renovating the house for maximum energy efficiency and planning out our land for maximum self-sufficiency.
Hi Greeny, We have screening of the power of community coming up (rescreenings actually) here on the Sunny Coast. I bought my copy from the Byron Child magazine website. cheers, Sonya
I think the economic collapse is the most fearful issue and as greeny mentioned the banks may collapse with the ecomomy ....... most people seem to concentrate on reducing their mortgage but if the banks collapse that will not be an issue ....... we dont have any debt but I still think bank collase taking savings is a bigger issue we are pensioners ( me disabled hubby my carer ) and hubby has a small amount of super ........ when the big collapse comes we realise their will be little or no pension .......( I have no doubt that both the govt and the "average wankers "will not worry about letting the disableed starve ) ..... .so we are slowly working to put what little savings we have into making ourselves self sufficient .......... the worry about banks is a big issue ...... but we need to have some money aside for if they cancel the pension .......... ourselves really means hubby because I cant physicially do anything we live about 100km from a major city and hope this is far enough ....... I do believe people trying to steal food or eat our goats will be a problem but I am not prepared to sink to their level and defend ourselves with guns - I hope we can at least preserve our humanity although the way the world is going it may be the biggest challenge we would certainly like to find better location but with having to avoid farming areas due to spray drift and contamination from GE crops there just arent many options we chose our block carefully ....... we have a natural bush area along the road which block view so without driving in people dont know that we have goats or grow food ........ hopfully the looters will go for the stylish Macmansions set strategically to be viewed from the road :lol: :lol: if anyone does drive in we have a locked gate and electric fence ( farm fence ) about 60m from the road ...... the gate is always locked as with em suffering from severe chemical senitivity we dont want unannounced visitors who may wear perfume etc ...... but we can see it may also be helpful eventually ........... we have our own water supply and it should be reliable until things get very very bad and that should be after we are long dead :lol: we dont have fertile soil but we are working on remineralising and the goats manure is slowly helping we eventually hope to have our own stand alone power supply if/when suncubes become available (https://www.greenandgoldenergy.com.au ) meanwhile we have enough flat panels to run a few lights - a 12v pressure pump for house water - the composting toilet fan .......... hoping we can get a better system in time particularly as we are currently dependant on mains electricity to get water frosty
I just ordered a copy of Escaping the Matrix from Amazon - sounded like a good book. Just warning though - there's another book by the same name but a different author - looks quite different. Don't get that one by mistake! Fiona
No kidding Fiona! I think the *other* Escaping the Matrix is a fundamentalist christian tome! And if you want a real fright, read Cormac McCarthy's most recent novel, The Road. Talk about worst-case, post collapse scenarios. Forget about permie-sustainability in his post-apocalyptic world- it's a biologically dead planet of ash. Reading it reminded me of when as a kid I pulled On the Beach off my parents' bookshelf and read it at much too young an age to be reading such things. I had nightmares for YEARS! At least I think I've either filled my head with enough junk or killed of enough brain cells that having read The Road won't make my end-of-civilization dreams any worse than they already are....
Didn't know On the Beach was a book.....also saw the original movie at a young age and it was scary....more so than many other End of cilivisation as we know it type movies. Cathy
My copy of Escaping the Matrix arrived yesterday - that was quick! Still in the middle of another book. Anyway ... here is my "preparation" and lack of - with quite a few concerns about our current situation and how we'd cope with future oil crisis with things the way we have them now. We are on a bit over 1/4 acre in a suburb of Sydney, with a reasonably big mortgage. We moved here about 6 months ago, and I've been working to establish veg gardens and looking at getting chooks (again - had them before we moved) and a little goat, as we have a large back yard, and also back onto bush so there is enough space between our house and other houses for that. We are connected to mains electricity and water. The plan is to change to grid connected solar and add water tanks (although we'd still be connected). We were in a big dilemma with where to move when we were looking, but it was important to me to be near family, and we're only about 10 min drive to part of my family (so could do it by bike or whatever if necessary). I sometimes have to call on family to help out (eg for quick trip to hospital with a child needing stitches after wild play late at night) as my partner works odd hours. If we were living somewhere more isolated, he would still be working those odd hours, so I'd be dealing with pretty much everything (garden, animals and any crises) alone. Other advantages of our location - we can walk to little shops, school (2 kids), train stations, and even a hospital. We're in a really friendly cul de sac, which I also think is important - everyone knows each other. My concerns now are - being in debt (but still wanting to make changes to the house, such as solar and tanks), the location, and not having enough room to do as much as I'd like. But I don't know that, just after we've moved, we can pack up and move again. And its still important to be near family. I would have also preferred to have either bought or built a house that is better designed for our climate, etc - this one doesn't even have insulation (yet ... that will come)!
Hi Fiona Your situation sounds like ours. We have 600 square metres and a poorly designed house covering about a third of that. Inspired by Josh Byrne on GA I found myself intrigued by permaculture when working out what to do in the backyard since we moved in at the end of Jan. I borrowed some books on permaculture from the library and did heaps of research on the net. We now have a small stormwater swale with pond (to be lined) in the middle out the front and veggies and chook tractor out the back. Also compost bins and worm farm. I've nearly completed the switch of all our light globes to compact flourescent and we've got buckets for greywater for the time being. If I had 50k to work with I'd get solar power and gas boosted water heater, underground water tanks, greywater system, automatic dripline watering system and more but I think I've already spent the money by now ;-) One thing I've been wondering about is if an economic collapse would result in massive inflation or just no money being available. If it's inflation and we end up with an Aus dollar being worthless then our big loans could be equivalent to the price of a loaf of bread ;-) Cheers Monte
Ah Fiona! Hello hello! Fancy meeting you here LOL!! I wanted to reply to posts from a while back but went camping . The idea of "just shoot me I don't want to live in a world like that" is understandable but I have a 2 year old daughter and have to think about her future and wellbeing. I would prefer she lived to an old age, so I'd rather move somewhere safer while we can. It's not imminent though. I would love to convince 2 or 3 likeminded families to pool resources and buy land and build somewhere, but the actuality of convincing anyone is remote. Too many people think technology will save our way of life yada yada. Or it's too much effort to relocate now. Plus the jobs factor... there're not many jobs outside the major metropolitan areas for my partner and we can't afford to take a big pay cut. Too much bloody debt. You know if the govts would just take climate change seriously the peak oil collapse may never be an issue. But we see them squabbling over this and that and I just get so despondent that my daughter will grow up in a hellish world.
fiona, Just on this thread and also your desire to own a goat. You may be able to get permission from your council/shire for you to *wink* use a bit of land behind your house for fire mitigation[and graze the goat]. Some councils will give you the okay if there are no complaints, Especially if you get a few neighbours onside. You could perhaps fence off another 1/8 acre. It would help if you were to imply you need goat's milk to feed your baby. Nothing ventured, as they say. mike
Thanks for that suggestion. One of my neighbours grows something that he wins prizes for in his bit of bush yard that leads into the rest of the bush, so I think he'd be a bit nervous about goats down there, but there is some of our land that is bush too, and quite weedy, so perhaps some tethered time there could work. All the yards end up as bush and I think the biggest area is owned by the local hospital, so it could be more a case of convincing neighbours of the benefits, and having the occasional day tethered at different spots. There are also a couple of acres (divided into 500m2 lots!!) for sale 5 min walk away, that have been for sale for ages and are overgrown with weeds. I've been thinking that when I do get the goat(s) I would ask the agents of that land if they'd like help keeping the weeds down. Short term I know, but everything will help. And once that is finally sold (if ever) something else will surely come up. Fiona
Hi people. On this discussion I feel that I and some others may have gotten a little too freaked out by peak oil. Having said that, myself and my partner are moving out to our purchased property in country victoria in the next year or two so I do take the topic seriously. I agree a great deal with Jez's take on the manageable scale of rural areas/people but I thought I would direct people to a good essay on the topic of getting too spooked by Peaking Out Oil (I sometimes Peak Out on the topic!) Check Out what this dude has to say. A good read and a chill pill type of feeling. https://www.patternliteracy.com/doomer.html
I read Toby's article a couple of months ago when it first came out Ladyboy, and I think it does provide a somewhat worthwhile historical perspective to 'doomerism.' However, personally, I think the article is very selective and only focuses on 'failed predictions' - presenting largely a hand selected group of historical 'misses' which rely on a lot of 'mumbo jumbo', non-scientific predictions to present a case for 'doomerism.' He left out a far greater number of 'predictions' based on scientific method, which have proved correct. Every scientific analysis starts with a hypothesis (a prediction if you like) and seeks to prove or disprove that hypothesis based on the evidence present. The great advancements which we've made in many technological fields (medicine alone is amazing) points to a vast number of 'predictions' (hypothesis') which did prove correct. A failure to make these advancements, would leave us with a great number of justified reasons for 'doomerism' in these areas. Failure to recognise the vast number of correct 'predictions' science has brought us, means (IMO) Toby is presenting a very incomplete, one-sided analysis. He is effectively grouping Peak Oil with a stack of essentially religious predictions sprinkled with a few 'junk science' flops - when a far more appropriate grouping would be with the huge number of scientifically based 'predictions' which have proved absolutely valid, and which he makes zero mention of. I think Toby really went a bit overboard when he classified Richard Heinberg's prediction of a return to a largely agrarian society as a 'doomer' prediction involving collapse and rebirth. It's nothing of the sort - Heinberg is advocating sensible, sustainable adjustment...which is an entirely different thing...and something I believe strongly in - both personal preparation and alerting others to the need for adjustment. I really don't hold with 'mass die-off' and similar predictions held by some in the Peak Oil crowd...much of it seems to come from people who have no skills for self-sufficiency whatsoever, and/or live in densely populated areas where what Toby predicts - "widespread unemployment and hardship" - could well lead to a mini-collapse and relative chaos in those specific areas. When a person thinks they have no effective means to prepare/adjust, then I guess that is grounds for panic - not that there is any need. People just have to be assertive and learn what needs to be learned, or surround themselvesf with people who can share skills, learning and ultimately, prosper together. My view, is that if "widespread unemployment and hardship" is likely to affect a person or family's current existence, then they would be well served by evaluating how they can make their personal, appropriate adjustment - now, rather than when millions of people are struggling with the same problems. Thanks for providing the article for discussion...I almost threw it on the Peak Oil Thread when it first came out, but decided against it because of all I'd have to add as commentary. :lol:
So, if you get relative chaos in those specific areas, the cities, there is going to be a knock on effect in the country too. Especially seeing as though, as Heinberg points out in his recent article, even the farmers don't grow their own food. Noone knows how to do anything useful anymore, except the few things they are specialised in... I mean, does anyone here know the first thing about forging tools? Let alone getting metal out of the ground and into a useful form. Everytime I use a shovel or a machete I wonder how far off the stone age is! Of course, the real danger is that the oil won't run out in time, and we'll keep burning it until the atmosphere goes away.
Look I couldn't agree more with the points presented Jez, I'm learning everything I can in terms of skills and design, while we are working on our property in Castlemaine (which means at the moment just working my arse off in the city to get the funds together for major works and a house etc.) I guess I was more or less referring to the process of "freaking Out" emotionally. It can be quite overwhelming for some at first until they empower themselves with serious action towards self-reliance. You can just frazzle yourself with doom instead of getting an action plan together in some way. Also what troubled me about his article is the suggestion that millions of people starving (global food production peaked in 2000) doesn't constitute some sort of doom that is already occurring;-not in the computer laden intellectual west I guess. He did however present a positive idea that we will cope some how. And I agree with Richard that the real danger is in the oil and coal continually going up into the atmosphere. As an aside I'm on day one of the PDC with Bill Mollison and Geoff and Nadia Lawton today at Melbourne uni. It is so different from the one I did in Crystal Waters 15 years ago and made me shudder at how little I have done beside back yard vegies in the city for all that time. So good to be moving toward moving to full scale rural food gardening. Caan't wait to get the design finished and start earth works!!
ladyboy, would love to hear about the course as it evolves. Perhaps in a new thread??. Did my course 14 years ago with Rick and Naomi colman in Farnkston Victoria. Sometimes I think I'm going really well with all I wish to implement, others I feel frustrated with how far I am from where I want to be. Enjoy the course. What an amazing experience. Jackie
Bill Mollison is hillarious! He's so self directed that from a somewhat conditioned urbanite he almost comes across as off his rocker but the mind of the man is truly an inspiration. I simply must read his autobiography! I'll keep ya posted and may encourage another thread.,
Absolutely Richard, most 'farming' areas buy in a lot of foodstuffs and almost everything in the way of produced goods. However, most 'farming' areas are better placed to adjust IMO. I traded some computer lessons and photographic work for basic blacksmithing lessons when I was down in Tassie...the end result is not exactly craftsmanship...:lol:...but I know the basics of how to build a forge and shape metal. It's very demanding work! I spent ~$80 on two hand forged steel Korean style hand trowels...I suspect the first will outlive me but it never hurts to have a spare. My mattock and landscaping shovel are both top quality steel, so I figure I'll only ever have to replace the handles for them - they don't get used that often. My pruning saw cost a packet and has a thick layer of chrome plating, plus I have a spare blade for that...might get another spare down the track. A couple of pairs of top quality secateurs are next on my list. If worst comes to worst, there'll be a lot of scrap metal laying around in the form of vehicles and machines which no longer function! Yep, absolutely LB, it can be very overwhelming unless you discover a path to empowerment - or were already on the way via Permaculture. Yeah, millions are starving and the 'oil age' is already over in many poorer parts of the world. Quite a number of hospitals in Asia and Africa run entirely on petrol generators and even the minor price spike last year shut a lot of them down or hugely reduced their capacity to cope...as you say, 'doom' is already hitting harder than ever for many people. No doubt...and coal promises to get worse. I noticed yesterday that the one of the most prominent Democrat contenders for the 2008 Presidency (Obama) is going to run on a 'let's use heaps more coal' platform. That's fantastic LB, I hope you get lots more out of the course and that your plan all works out well for you both.
