Discussion in 'Planting, growing, nurturing Plants' started by Ev, Jun 2, 2006.
I aint talkin about tabacco smoke, dont touch it myself. I do smoke GANJA though.
I have been thinking about joining in the open garden scheme when my gardens are at a more developed level, this way I can show interested people first hand what some of the design principles of Permaculture can achieve. Lead by example.
This won't happen for a few years but it's something I would like to do, my place is always open to Permies as i'm always looking for extra ideas.
Permanut, are you north Brisbane? are you close by?
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
I too tought of joing the open garden scheme a few years ago.........
Thank god i didnt.......Woulda been wasting their times....
They do wanabe on the cover of better homes and gardens...
Ill settle for an inside page in a Permie mag or a picture via the web pages in here :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Just responding to the initial post...
...theres always a lot of negative propaganda/vibes directed towards anything that is outside of, or challenges, the mainstream Mother Earth raping paradigm. People absorb this disinformation/negative energy and become part of the process (of negative propaganda). Its almost like a karmic thing...but actually programmed facism. It happens all the time. Permaculture is kinda a way/method to break through this programmed facism and present sane Mother Earth respecting values/reality to a 'mr normal' audience.
As regards drug cultivation (cannabis) I see it rather differently. If the youth were to be allowed without any illegality whatsoever to grow there own cannabis, on community Permaculture orchard etc land even!...then they would learn about horticulture, because cannabis is exciting!...and, of course, cannabis as part of the permaculture system can very very very sound. Society, in the west, would inder these circumstances be totally and radically different. People might not even be so programmed paranoic that they are unable to share with people that they have just met....but its illegal to cultivate cannabis (very illegal in some places) in most western countries, and so this makes for complications as regards the way the drug works. (Read 'fear the great controller' by masonic pyscopathically anti goddess western government scum). Its not like, for example (hot travel tip here folks), the 'Dha Hannu' valley in Ladakh, where the elders wearing traditional clothes wear wehere hashish pipes around their necks, and cannabis is an excellent goddess innvocation in fact. So in asane society cannabis is not about some sort of dodgy scene or intoxication or trying to kill oneself..its very cvery life afirming innvocation! (when used in this sound ritual/natural magic/auspicious scene way). Its a matter of respect bascially, for tradional, and sound, tribal culture...and oneself :~ Ideals that people here in the west are (re) discovering at this time. For what good it will do them....Rather too late fools.
Gotcha there middle class new age nazi!
No. if we were to NOW enact various measures ranging from total non commerical legalisation of cannabis(thus acting as a sacrement for free sharing/goddess innvocation...collie/kali weed remember) reality to a total ban on all new road building ...then you/we MIGHT have some chance of survival in this reality...othervise (accent turning germanic) you and you're precious little white skinned scum ov children vill die in fear horror and pain beyond your vorst nightmares in an totally horrific and nightmarish eco cide...HEY!! Perhaps its 'meant to be' mmmmmmmaaaaaaannnnnnnnnnnn..........................
This is why I do not smoke marijuana. :lol:
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
breathe...., breathe...., breathe....,
breathe....gasp, wheeze, coughbreathe....
Infinitegodhead, I think you've spent too much time in the company of green goddess. Once she gets hold of you, all perspective becomes distorted.
If reality is for people who can't handle drugs, I'll have to stick with reality.
Take good care of yourself. 8)
I actually found that to one of infinitegodheads more lucid posts. I am glad to have you around, cobber.
I agree, Richard, that was a more lucid post than usual. And don't get me wrong, I'm not attacking or ridiculing our friend, just making an observation, based on personal experience.
I think at least one of Infinitegodhead's observations about our current society is well made:
(but it's never too late)
Naturally inspired summed it up:
It's about balance, really. Seek balance. And take good care of yourself.
....and If I've read Infinitegodhead right, I agree that prohibition has always caused more problems than it solved. Prohibition is a symptom of the leadership's unhealthy need to control people's lives. The crisis of self destructive addiction, I think, is as much a consequence of it, as a sign of its failure.
I'll always argue in favour of moderation in all things, including abstination. 8)
We need a thread about dope, cannabis sative, marijuana and ganja so we can have at it.
I dont smoke it but have grown some remarkable plants. I often see, what I call cannabis rationales sneak into threads by people with all sorts of opinions on it. [ I will hide from abortion, gun control and gay marriage - we aint that sorta forum we are however into plants.]
We can have intelligent debate on this issue but someone else can open the thread.
...you're a cheeky cont (basically). (as are westerners in general). You'll learn....the hard way by da looks of things.
I also wanna say that.....
... I don't like the way some seem to try and use permaculture as some sort of anti cannabis 'drug rehabilitation program'... the point is that cannabis is a very very powerful goddess sacrment/invocation ESPECIALLY when used in the traditional context, which is why the set and setting needs to be sound...as in the deep goddess 'peace convoy' (UK context) paradym. That was my entry point into the alternative scene...you could say the 'Greenfield' at the UK Glastonbury festival type thing...especially when you had all the peace convoy buses parked up there. ( "we had to ban them because...because we wanted ego control :~ " ).....A totally different reality...foculising a deep goddess reality....as oppossed to the masonic type christian anti goddess disease THAT IS the actual nature of the problem that we as permies are trying to deal with...often on a community wide basis also. (which is the real challenge). Cannabis as part of the permaculture alchemy can be really sound!...and it would help for it to be totally legal (for non commerical apsects) for this to work better. You don't have to smoke it. The choice is yours...or should be.
Also, I'm a poet and work very often on a poetical level, and if you don't understand what I'm saying then I'm sorry but I see that as your problem! Some things have to be expressed unusually. This is awareness that is outside the conventional western level of thinking...which is a very very very tiny and bounded consciousness....and the true potential is unlimited...and thus the cosmic occult powers stuff that I go on about....and have experienced some of FOR REAL IN REAL TIME (and not just a drug induced head trip or illusion)...its starts (so does the masonic negative image of mental illness, of course,) , with a head trip...the head trip becomes more powerful...and you can 'dream' new realities into existance from your viewpoint....and for the whiole community. People that can do this are regarded as very powerful saints in the east. The way the set and setting, the mainstream programming, (the masonic anti goddess/witch con trick) works here in the west is to create a negative trip for these self same kinda peeps which they then call skitaphrenia....(often). Total and complete evil scum. (now don't egoise, that doesn't neccessrily mean you).
Pemaculture seemed to me to be an inclusive system...and so great for healing people that had been excluded from society....the ultimate alienation/scism being so called 'scitzaphrenia'...the (a) way the anti goddess ritual child abuse sacrement of the Masons manifests in society.
Finally, for someone here to turn around and say....oh your being 'more lucid than usual'...in other words totally taking the piss regarding, for example, what I've said here about the ritual child abuse case, is bascially, pissing in my face, and something that you would never ever do face to face, not because I'd give you a slap or somthing, but BECAUSE IT IS TRUE, and the evidence regarding the ruitual abuse case originally came from a partner who is a survivor...
https://www.suite101.com/discussion.cfm/ ... 9/latest/5
...and that would be totally apparent face to face...and thus (one of the) limitations of the interent.
...we are contained by this paradigm, by this negative magic, into a much much more material way of being than would otherwise be in existance. Look at how the western infiltration into Austrailia has turned the Aboriginal reality to shit (generally). Permaculture can be a way back into the magic..into goddess consciousness. Thanks again Bill.
Don't dismiss the witches without at least checking them out ...
Starhawk has been an inspiration to me for at least as long as the Permaculture duo ... she's no lightweight in either thought or action 'To create not just sustainability but ongoing abundance, we need to understand that the world is a web of dynamic relationships, that everything exists in communities and nothing stands alone'
witches and other pagans find the divine most reliably thro nature ... it's inevitable that the poetry of Permaculture should appeal ... it's literally going with the Flow
... from another witch 'If commercial agriculture is rape of the Earth, and if standard organic gardening is consensual sex with the Earth, then permaculture is ecstatic tantric union with the Earth. Just ask a permaculturalist. Notice those big smiles on their faces.' https://westbynorthwest.org/summer02/ded ... um02.shtml
I kind of like that image
however it's also a lot more mundane ... maybe like marriage, it needs the romance to keep us going over the tough patches???
it's not really a matter of either/or, diversity is to be valued for the richness it brings ... in humanity as in ecology
Infinitegodhead, I find your posts to have many good points, but many people would dismiss all of what you are saying because of their preconceptions about drugs, etc. I am not against marijuana. I don't smoke it myself, but I have. I find it to be a good way to meditate, relax, fun, nice, etc. It is highly illegal here, tho common, prevalent and cheap.
And, anything that makes people sit in their hammocks all day contemplating their fingernails is not all bad!
Further, I woud rather be in a room full of stoned potheads than in a pub full of drunks, too. The conversation might be elliptical ("So, you know, like when, like theres a.... wait, man, like, okay, lets say that if, sometimes, when you know, and theres, like, wow, and so, man, like whoa! and so... if, um, okay, not if but WHEN! and like..., ya know?" ...... "Wow, man, I've BEEN there!"), but there is little likelihood of a misunderstanding escalating to physical violence.) In all of my years I have never seen two people who were "nice up" from smoking ganja (as we say here in Belize) come to blows over misunderstanding or arguments that have been thinly veiled behind a curtain of civility, a curtain that evaporates with alcohol. If I had a dollar for every drunken fist fight I have seen, I could buy something really nice!
And, I am in favour of individual choices. If tobacco and alcohol are legal, then, obviously, marijuana should be too (especially since it is pharmacologically non toxic). And, Floot, I also think gay marriage should be allowed, and that control of a womans body should not be legislated out of her hands by the goverment, and I own several guns, and so does my wife (and most of our neighbors), for pest control.
However, I think the original purpose of this thread was to point out that "permaculture" has associations in many peoples minds, associations with ganja, wiccans, crystals, new age spiritual stuff, etc, that puts many "rational" people off, which is unfortunate, because the science behind the principles is sound. If we want to reach those people, we have to temper the ganja wiccan crystal new age stuff in favour of the science, avoided costs, efficiencies and sensibilities in a peak petroleum world, etc.
One of the reasons I avoid using the term permaculture is because the person I am talking to may have met just one person who talked about permaculture before, and that person may have been stoned, and, in the middle of the permaculture rap also put forth a wonderful "like, you know, western civilization is just a total bummer, man" rant. By using terms like "sustainable ecology" as put forth by Permanut, we transmit many of the same ideas (in terms that don't need explanations, unlike permaculture) without any of the ganja crystal wiccan new age baggage.
Carrollillith, I like all of your points.
At last this board is finally comming of age...We can disscuss without fear or retrabution...(hopefully)
I agree with Chris also as well as Infinite re. People who dont know anything,Supposedly telling us how bad it is with out understanding what it is that they understand...I never seen smokers fighting as apposed to drinkers.
Some of my most understandable freinds are smokers,there tolerence levels are way above the average human on this planet...
Ive often called the smoke material..As the ultimate Truth serum...It allows us to see the truth,Be the truth,and also Live the truth........
The Sooner Humans Learn to mind there own Buisness the sooner the Earth will become a place we all strive to create in our own back yards.......
Answer this Question........Would u let a total novice decide how u do your Permaculture garden........of course not.......
Would u allow an Alcoholic to decide whether or not its safe to smoke pot..
Would u allow a repeat sex offender to give sex education lessons..
Would a smoker allow bush,blair and little johnny to rule the world
The answer my freind is blowing in the wind...The answer is blowing in the wind
I came to permaculture because I believe we have to become more responsible and rational in the way we live and consume resources. To be honest I'm so middle class and rational I would probably be anathema to many of the people on this board. I don't smoke anything and I live in a big house on a tiny suburban Sydney block. We prefer the doctor to herbalists, science to new age and conventional religion to wiccans. Many of the conspiracy theories I read in the permaculture circles have me shaking my head in bewilderment.
I am interested in permaculture despite many of its practitioners, rather than because of them. My sister lives with a religious cult who demand complete surrender of self-will to their leaders. Their farms practice permaculture and in fact I find much in their lifestyle quite admirable. I just pray daily that the dear Leader never decides to crack open the Koolaid. :shock:
I do believe that more people are turned off permaculture than turned onto it by its 'new age' associations.
Hi mung beans..I feel very sorry for your sister..but she has free will also...
The biggest and most intolerant cult isnt any cult u mighta seen on tv eg jones town etc etc etc..
The badest cult is Human organised politics..talk about blind faith and absolute adherance to rules and ideas...It could be worse she could be a Liberal Senator
There is a place for all these ideas in permaculture.
Some people love the idea of a wild rambling garden, full of food, plants falling over the top of each other and yes, perhaps even weeds (just plants we haven't found uses for yet!). Many aspire to have a garden just like that - full of abundance, overgrown and wild - a haven for all creatures including us humans.
Others prefer things more ordered and that's fine too. Every garden design is different, every family/person has different needs. Time, money and experience greatly affect what your garden looks like too.
We purchased a teaching permaculture/organic property last year. The people who set it up planned the garden to appeal to more mainstream people. It is quite ordered, neat and tidy (although I can't resist having wild areas in Zone 5!). Many visitors to our place have commented that it looks like a botanic garden - which is great because that is what appeals to us, we love it like that (although I do appreciate the beauty of wild gardens too) - and the other important role our garden has is to show people who don't really like the wild look that there is an alternative - an alternative to the alternative I guess.
Students often bring their unimpressed/uninterested spouses here and it has worked in getting many more 'mainstream' people turning away from chemicals in the garden, buying their food from supermarkets, disregarding resources and not taking responsibility to starting to grow food using organic and permaculture principles.
As I said, there is a place for all gardens and ideas in permaculture.
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