Permaculture ? don't mention it?

Discussion in 'Planting, growing, nurturing Plants' started by Ev, Jun 2, 2006.

  1. Alex M

    Alex M Junior Member

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    I should point out that in Australia, the word "bastard" is often used as a term of endearment. Misunderstandings between Australians and North Americans have led to altercations in the past. :shock: :partyman:

    Australia is full of all sorts: tall bastards, short bastards, dopey bastards, smart bastards, silly bastards and the ever-popular funny bastard. :lol: (We don't like stuck-up bastards, but.) :wink:

    https://www.australianbeers.com/culture/bastard.htm

    I think Bill was just reminding us that there's a lot of old knowledge to draw from, and there's no need to re-invent the wheel; permaculture is mostly a neatly assembled collection of old wheels, working together.

    Now, I'm off for some swimming lessons. :fish:
     
  2. Douglas J.E. Barnes

    Douglas J.E. Barnes Junior Member

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    I knew that, ya bastard! :wink:
     
  3. Douglas J.E. Barnes

    Douglas J.E. Barnes Junior Member

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    Good old manual! From the Farm Strategies section on p. 20 of the Designer's Manual, there is mention of "marketing cooperatives." This strategy could be used by local permies to put together presentation material that's flasher than a rat with a gold tooth! (Threw that in for you Aussie bastards. :wink: )
     
  4. Richard on Maui

    Richard on Maui Junior Member

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    People here in the United States of America actually get offended when I affectionately call them bastards.
    Dougy baby, this is just my opinion, obviously, but I sort of tend to think that you would have more positive impact and influence actually doing design and implementation of sustainable systems than you would by documenting anything. A bit like Chrisitianity you know? You know it when you see it in action, not when people try to shove it down your throat in a sermon... (I'm not trying to say that Permaculture is a religion, that just seemed like a good example).
    Honestly there are many Permaculturalists out there who see their role not as gardeners but as marketers. Fuck that. I'm not sharing my guatemalean walnut bread with those bastards when the shit hits the fan. :lol:
     
  5. Douglas J.E. Barnes

    Douglas J.E. Barnes Junior Member

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    What I was trying to get at was making the already existing projects known to others. I hear about a lot of great stuff like the 80 mile long swales dug in India and planted up with fruit trees. Great stuff, but Bill just refers to it in passing. I'd love to see it in photos, if possible.

    I'm with you in that I don't want to be a marketer; and I generally see the term as referring to someone involved in the creation of artificial wants. That said, I'm willing to use techniques that work to show permaculture and why it's important. I'm not going to turn that into a full time job though. I want dirt under my nails and systems designed and implemented. That done, I'll document what has been accomplished then move onto the next project.

    And when the shit does hit the fan, I'll always have some homemade blueberry pancakes with maple syrup tapped on my own farm for you, Richard. :D
     
  6. Tezza

    Tezza Junior Member

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    Go Ricky Go Ricky Go Ricky


    Tezza
     
  7. Richard on Maui

    Richard on Maui Junior Member

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    Will you though? What are the pancakes going to be made from?
    Please don't take this the wrong way, I am not trying to attack you personally. I just think that it is important for us not to disappear into our uhm, BELLY BUTTONS, but really realise what is involved in doing for ourselves. Its bloody hard yakka, mate.
    Tragic thing is that some of those projects that Bill mentions in passing aren't there anymore. The bloke on his global gardener vid from India, that whole food forest was abandoned I believe, though could be wrong. I think it was discussed here recently. Ditto the northern NSW "subtropical research farm" property. Oh my god, I sound like a ditto head. I'm going to switch off and go dig some tree holes.
     
  8. Loris

    Loris Junior Member

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    I'm married to a difficult bastard. It has long been a joke that one year for his birthday I tried to get him personalized number plates that said BSTRD1. Much loved by me and kids but definitely wouldn't call him socially acceptable.
     
  9. Richard on Maui

    Richard on Maui Junior Member

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    Good for you Loris. You and my wife probably have a lot in common... :lol:
     
  10. Tezza

    Tezza Junior Member

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    Gee Ricky Looks Like its only me and Thee who got propper permie places left,How old is your place Ricky Allmost 5 yrs and 11 months here..Got enough vids and still photos to bore even the most ardent Permie

    Not to mention the previous 12 years of my permie projects...

    Tezza
     
  11. naturally inspired

    naturally inspired Junior Member

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    very nice topic. i think it is extremely important to remember that permaculturalists come from all walks of life. we are not all pot smioking fairy worshipping hippies, although some are. it is important that we respect these differences in people and understand that no matter which way a person chooses to practice permaculture, the important thing is that they are practising permaculture.

    As for the people who do not understand what permaculture is or have a misguided perception, i agree with Mark, it is up to us to inform them. we must not judge them as briefcase toting cash hungry business people, if we do this we are being just as judgemental as the rest of the world. we must have compassion for all who are lost to the path of happiness.

    the paths to happiness are many, permaculture can definately be included in many paths, but in others it may not be. every person has their own individual path and all must be respected.
     
  12. Richard on Maui

    Richard on Maui Junior Member

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    well said, ni. for instance, my "owner" happens to be a brief case toting money grubbing son of gun, but at least he is investing his money in land and getting hippies like me to plant it out with useful trees etc.
     
  13. Alex M

    Alex M Junior Member

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    Humorless bastards! :lol: :lol:

    I'm a fitter by trade; I served an apprenticeship, and have more than 20 years experience. I work with Muslim fitters, Hindu fitters, and even Christian fitters, some have long hair, some short. Some are pretty casual, others are a bit hung-up. Some are pretty unpleasant characters. I get on well with all of them, but blokes who reckon they are fitters, but don't know what they're doing on the job, and 'borrow' my tools and lose them are a real pain in the arse.

    I suppose I look at permaculture the same way. I don't care if some one seriously believes in the flying spagetti monster. I just want to learn more about permaculture from people who know what they're doing, and because I reckon it's just a brilliant idea, I want to be able to point anyone who's interested (and anyone I can interest) to good, established projects that work.

    Bill spoke at length about ways to make real, serious money out of Permaculture. Remember, it is the love of money that is the root of all evil (ie, greed). Money's just really useful stuff, and if I had access to more of it, I'd spend it on building a permaculture system that could bring in a good, ethical, sustainable income.

    (rant ends) :shock:
     
  14. naturally inspired

    naturally inspired Junior Member

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    i like your ideas Alex M. money can be very useful stuff, and some money is almost always necessary. It is only when we become obssessed with the stuff and start exploiting everything and everyone in order to get it that it causes problems.

    and of course, you cant judge a book by its cover!!!!
     
  15. Richard on Maui

    Richard on Maui Junior Member

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    So Alex, where do you work that come across so many different fitters? And, I'm just curious, have you ever made and distillation equipment? I have often thought that manufacturing essential oils from forest products would be a great supplemental income in a Permculture system.
     
  16. Boab

    Boab Junior Member

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    This was farming before it became automated and factory run. Permaculture, in my opinion (currently doing a PDC), simply brings us back to the way things were. In parts of the world (usually underdeveloped but there are exceptions - Italy being one), the permaculture system of farming has been around since time immemorial. The early Chinese even used the term 'permanent agriculture' to define their system. They consciously and carefully designed landscapes which mimic the patterns and relationships found in nature while yielding an abundance of food, fibre and energy for provision of local needs. This is what we know as permaculture today.

    So Bill and David (who is so often left out of the equation) didn't reivent the wheel but credit to them both for bringing the old wheel back to the lives of Australians.

    As for people in permaculture, well the list is wide. For me, the heaviest leanings have been pagan and buddhist but I'm fortunate in that where I am they don't push the religious bent. But there are plenty of unwashed in many professions. Unfortunately, people tend to stigmatise that which they are fearful of. (Try getting an inside look at the medical industry - omg - plenty of sustainable hippy/pagan/new age/whatever weirdos in there let me tell you). :lol:
     
  17. Alex M

    Alex M Junior Member

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    Who was it who gave this advice? "Love people, use things, not the other way round." I can't remember. Yes, obsession is an interesting thing, especially when one awakes from an obsession and sees the absurdity of it, in retrospect, how foolish one feels! Maybe, just maybe, humans are on the verge a massive awakening. Or maybe we haven't grown up enough. Who knows?

    Time will tell.

    My cover's getting a little tatty, these days, n i! :lol: :lol: :lol:

    Richard, I work for a labour hire firm - I'm a mercenary worker. I go to various sites and meet a lot of different people. A year or so ago, I did meet an Indian engineer who was planning to import a range of nifty-looking electic distillation units, designed for small-scale essential oil production. If I can track down his details, I'll pass them on. :wink:

    Yes, Boab, and the whole world. Permaculture appeals to my work ethic: looking for the quickest way to achieve the best results with the least effort. The monocultural industrial military "green revolution" seems to be a way of tricking others into working harder and longer for less benefit to anyone other than the con-men who deceived them in the first place.

    I'm trying to get an image into a few people's minds, of Permaculture as a practical and profitable solution to our food security concerns. Maybe, as Permaculture slips further into the discourse, when they hear it mentioned again, they will think "ah, I've heard a bit about that! It seemed to make sense. I wonder if ....."

    Bill Mollison told us not to expect Permaculture to change the world. He said the world will change itself. "Permaculture," he said, "is a response to those changes." I plant the seeds of pioneer ideas in people's minds, ready for the conditions to be favourable for their spread. :wink:
     
  18. Tezza

    Tezza Junior Member

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    Roll on NEXT Spring

    Tezza
     
  19. permanut

    permanut Junior Member

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    When people ask me what I do I say sustainable ecology design, it sounds a lot better and you find you pick up more girls, that way they don't think your some mad hippy. HA HA. No seriously I used try and explain what Permaculture was...now I just call it sustainable landscape design. If someone is genuinly interested and not just making polite conversation and is on the level, i'll tell them about Permaculture. Alas most people I talk to are just not able to grasp the simple concept of care of people and the planet, and taking self responsibility. Mention peak oil, 9/11 conspiricys and they think your a nutter. Casting pearls amongst swine springs to mind.
    They respond best I find when they see for themselves the rocket, ibeka tree spinach, sweet potatoes and bananas irrigated with grey water, and then taste a delicious organic meal that I rustle up out of the garden, and the nice smoke after. :wink:
     
  20. Tezza

    Tezza Junior Member

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    That familiar Tobacco smell,mmmm

    ex ciggie smoker 14 months

    Tezza
     

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