"permaculture" a tainted word

Discussion in 'General chat' started by Ludi, May 16, 2012.

  1. gardenlen

    gardenlen Group for banned users

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    i'm simply providing mark with the info' he asked for, i won't be going religious as i have nothing to do with religion, but i'm not going there as the majority have no knowledge or limited knowledge.

    all i know is i actually help others and as i told you on another thread i get and expect nothing in return..

    len
     
  2. pippimac

    pippimac Junior Member

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    Here's a bit of an edited version of a permies post...
    I find this divisive thing pretty odd, in fact I posted about it on my 'other' online community:
    https://forums.permaculture.org.au/showthread.php?1...rmaculture-quot-a-tainted-word.
    It's a really hard one for me as the arguments generally seem to be based on paradigms that completely misunderstand each other.
    For example, 'socialist' is not a dirty word in NZ, in fact, our political structure is based on a form of socialism, wheras in the US, 'socialism' seems to be seen as a kind of communo-Nazism (Or something )

    This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Today 9:16:30 p.m. by Leila Rich
     
  3. pebble

    pebble Junior Member

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  4. pebble

    pebble Junior Member

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    That's a very strange link Leila!
     
  5. pebble

    pebble Junior Member

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    No worries Len :) It's not a problem that you posted that. I expect it will get some replies.
     
  6. pebble

    pebble Junior Member

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    The thing that bothers me about permies is that the political positions taken by some people are so extreme that they prohibit useful discussion. And it doesn't help that Paul censors alot of discussion so what is able to be read there is actually a kind of social manipulation within the permaculture community (not because Paul wants to run the site the way he does, but because of how he does it).

    It's taken me a long time to understand what the problem actually is with the third ethic there. Actually I still don't get it, but assume it's something to do with the dude who put and electronic version of Gaia's Garden up for free on the internet, and Paul's strong feelings against copyright piracy (which is why I love when he interviews Lawton and Lawton basically says it would be nice to get more income from his work but it probably doesn't matter (piracy) because it gets the message out there). That and the libertarian bent.


    I mean really, how much piracy is going on? Very occasionally someone posts links here to copyrighted works. But it's not in any way rife. Is the US Pc scene overrun with people wanting everything to be free?
     
  7. matto

    matto Junior Member

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    To paraphrase Cal Naughton Jnr. I like to think of the thrid ethic dressed in a tuxedo t-shirt, 'Cause it says like, I wanna be formal but I’m here to party too. I like to party, so I like my (ethic) to party".

    Being at David's place and reading his stuff, I can only say that he does practise limits of consumption in what he and Su call voluntary frugality and are setting limits to their ecological footprint. EROEI is something that Adam Grubb says David considers in every task he is involved with at Melliodora.

    Its this type of re-investment of energy that greatly interests me. Time and physical energy is all I have in any surplus to put back into the system through wwoofing, community days, etc. Im sure their will be an element of knowledge I am able to put back into the system to kickstart new permies and landholders and their pathway to sustainablitity, now that I have been learning along the way.

    Of course this can be economical in its role such as milkwood putting on free community consults and workshops, most PDC's still have a quota of low income earners to fill their classes, and I like what MArkos is doing with his fee structure, doing consultations for homeless people for free. Imagine letting them know of certain bylaws they can take advantage of for using say, Crown land to grow some plants and obtain a yield.

    Following natures example of a positive feedback loop, the more we invest to nurture the (eco)system, the more resiliant the whole becomes. Traditional systems, and communities wouldnt't have survived this long without this kind of principle.

    Not to say we cant take time out to party!
     
  8. pippimac

    pippimac Junior Member

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    Sorry pebble, permiesvsPRI is pretty tiresome and I shouldn thave linked it
    Weird, I have no idea where that link came from!
     
  9. pebble

    pebble Junior Member

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    Yeah Leila, I probably shouldn't get into it either.

    Matto, would you consider resposting that in the Third Ethic thread I started? It's very good perspective.
     
  10. ecodharmamark

    ecodharmamark Junior Member

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    G'day Len

    Thanks for that.

    Cheerio, Markos.
     
  11. andrew curr

    andrew curr Moderator

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    who is paul???
     
  12. purplepear

    purplepear Junior Member

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    Paul Wheaton at permies.com
     
  13. gardenlen

    gardenlen Group for banned users

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    yeh that's paul,

    different outlook almost dictatorial, every member of his forum had to change their stage names so they looked more like real names???? mine was changed for me.

    len
     
  14. pebble

    pebble Junior Member

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    Sorry Andrew, I could have made that clearer.
     
  15. Pakanohida

    Pakanohida Junior Member

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    Social manipulation is exactly what it is, especially with the 3rd ethic.

    Another example; I never saw that bullshit transition ethic anywhere, till I saw it there, 2 years or so later, it came here in that Biodynamic workbook that was shared not too long ago.

    Sorry, but the transitive ethic is a lie IMO, which in turns provides more social manipulation of the masses as to what is, and what isn't Permaculture in America.
     
  16. Pakanohida

    Pakanohida Junior Member

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    I wonder how legal that actually is, and if JForum knows. I know people who have had extreme problems with hackers that are well outside the realm of this topic, and if it was their name changed, I know for a fact a law suit would be coming down.
     
  17. Ludi

    Ludi Junior Member

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    I'm glad there's a discussion about it here and in fact Paul has posted a link from permies to the forum here and mentioned there is more discussion of ethics and society here on the PRI messageboard than on permies. So it is good there is this venue for people to find, and Paul is fine with people coming over here to talk about things he restricts over there.
     
  18. gardenlen

    gardenlen Group for banned users

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    probably got nothing to do with legal in the sense of the word, we all join forums under common rules posted when we join, just that the rules of this forum were changed mid-stream and all required to adhere it it, even though not doing so did not break any real rules like abuse etc.,. not once was i spoken to directly always by underlings.

    suppose i could have called myself "real mccoy" hey?

    even here we all have preferred usernames.

    len
     

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