You missed the point len. Once the middle classes get on board, they will have the power and resources to make it mainstream and then it will be available to everyone - well, within the limits of society but you know what I mean. If it gets into education curriculums for instance. And it won't until it has a research base to support it.
Next generation, perhaps? My daughter is 2 and they plant seeds every other week, have a compost worm farm and started their own compost bin (at her daycare). Basically the same stuff we do at home but aimed at 30 kids. Maybe 25 years down the track, when the other kids are young adults they may think back and BAM! PERMACULTURE. For what purpose are we labeling?
got the point i reckon pebble, before it can become curriculum it needs a cast iron job stream, just having it in curriculum won't guarantee that, there are schools up here that have it as curriculum as far as i know one was a private religion backed school, but that hasn't created a career path. the grass roots people only use gov' supported type health professionals because there is a need, people don't use other people to mow there lawns they don't have to. trades people provide needs based services though plumbing can be very DIY, and closer to home not many of teh masses would call in an arborist or garden designer. len
There is no religion, hippie, or anything else added to it, and it isn't some kind of gardening method, That problem only exists at Permies with there bullshit transitive ethic & the bullshit they think Permaculture is. That place does more dis-service for the person trying to learn then it does benefit.
There was a guy on a peak oil messageboard whose sole purpose seemed to be to denigrate permaculture. It was extremely strange. He used the original Greening the Desert Jordan project as an example of the failure of permaculture! Other people seem to vaguely complain about permaculture without knowing much about it. I've never really known how to deal with these sorts of discussions on other boards, besides suggest the people maybe might want to learn a little more about it.....
Arguing with trolls on line is pretty much a waste of time when you could be planting stuff. The philosophies/outlook/practices of Permacuture are a threat to many vested interests. These days it seems many of these interests have their own paid ''opinion pushers" on line.
I prefer Goddess actually.... I met a woman once at a party, who did Angel Readings for a living (interesting line of work hey!). She crossed the room melodramatically and grabbed me and said - 'You are a Goddess! I really need to do a reading for you.' She was clutching a glass of wine at the time so I suspected that the god of grapes was the one talking to her at the time!
Why would a Goddess need an Angel Reading? Goddess: "Of course I'm surrounded by Angels, why would you doubt?"
I recently read a great piece by Cam Wilson, it was on doing overseas aid work and how Rowe Morrow approaches the task and i guess the philosophies will apply to the local community we work in as well. https://www.permaforesttrust.org.au...the-eskimos-are-coming?searchterm=the+eskimos
good point Our local Permie group just had a talk from someone who spent some short time in Uganda 'teaching' permacuture. The environment is so degraded there (around lake Victoria, once teeming with fish and wildlife, now no longer) she had to take students to a botanic garden to see what a forest looked like! Her "opposition" were well funded Dutch flower and tobacco growing operations who gave free seed, fertiliser and purchased the crop. Usually after three years growing such crops, the farmers' soil was so depleted it could grow little. Her approach was to show people how to grow food, how to make crap soil fertile, how to harvest water, how to integrate local animals and soil, how to make compost and even if the farmer did grow tobacco, suggested they just keep a little bit back to grow food for his/her family. Her reception seemed very warm; possibly because she did not condescend, but listened and learnt as much as she gave
I think humans worry too much about labels. Though I do have to admit that the doom and gloom bits along with some of the other "hippy" stuff does set my teeth on edge. But that's the beauty of permaculture, it adapts to many lifestyles and beliefs. Even though I don't consider myself to be a hippy, the neighbors might! And to be honest, I really don't care much for what other people think about me. Let's take a look at conservative and liberal. Conservative means staying the course, status quo and all of that. Liberal means wanting change. When it comes to politics, those definitions don't really stand. Language evolves. If you call an apple a banana for long enough, then apples become a banana(in name only). I also think humans worry too much about finding god(I'm atheist). Humans slap godhoods on just about anything, and that's been going on since day 1. Though if I were to ever worship a god, or apply godhood status to something, it probably would be nature. I can see how this sort of thing happens, and we should feel some form of reverence for these natural forces that give us life, I'm just not sure that worshiping them is the way to go. So no, I don't think that permaculture should mean anything(ie: gum on a stick), but the beauty(or curse) of permaculture is that it can be applied to anything that adheres to the principles. I personally don't see how gum on a stick is sustainable though(yet another buzzword that is being overused).
G'day All What about when the 'gum' is harvested in a sustainable manner, and then put to utilitarian use on a 'stick'? Desert Aboriginal people collect certain species of Spinifex and bash it with a stick on a clean surface to begin the extraction of resin [gum] which occurs at the base of the stems. The chaff is heated with a fire stick causing the resin to melt. It is then rolled into a ball and used as an adhesive, mainly for attaching stone cutting chips to wooden implements such as spears [sticks]. Source: Alice Springs Desert Park (no date) Nature Notes - Spinifex So, permaculture can be 'gum on a stick'. Cheerio, Markos.
I dont understand the 'tainted' bit. Maybe things are different over here. Mind you most people I know dont have a problem with the concept of Hippies either.
Pebble the comment was to illustrate that any random pointless thing could be labelled permaculture even when it patently wasn't anything to do with permaculture. Until Markos came along and proved that gum on a stick has a point..... I always suspected that NZ was more civilised than the rest of the world mischief. If you don't have issues with hippies being typecast as drug addled dole bludgers, or permaculture as something only nut jobs get involved with, then it really is a much nicer part of the world!