Peak Oil, preparedness and relocation in Australia

Discussion in 'The big picture' started by jackie, Jul 15, 2006.

  1. jackie

    jackie Junior Member

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    I'm interested in ideas on relocation in Australia to prepare for peak oil. Have done a trip to tassie, feel it's got smaller population base, hydro electricity, water, wilderness, furtile land etc.. Concerned by isolating ourselves when the ferry is so expensive now and it's not making a profit, it's going to become more isolated. Suppose the positive is it's harder for others to get there in times of turmoil...
    have included what I wrote in response to the ABC for corners Peak Oil show :

    Nice to see this topic being aired on the permie forum. I was first introduced to it at David Holmgreins opening talk for the Permaculture Convergence in Melbourne Last year. It's a life changing relelation, tp begin to comprehend the end of the "oil age" so to speak. Unlike the stone age, iron age, bronze age etc, we don't have something 'better' to move onto and with the size of the world population it's quite scary.

    My journey so far has led me to * https://www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.com a great starting point and good regular source of relevant world news.
    * book "the long emergency" great all round sum up of the topic
    * a trip to tassie with the idea of moving. Living on 20 acres walking distance to a town of 20-30000 may sound a good start but when there are 3 million melbournians an hours drive or 6 hour run from my furtile little part of the world it scares me.


    I hope people can begin to look beyond the obvious cost of fuel. Nearly every thing we buy is packaged in oil (plastic) , has traveled by oil, been farmed and fertilised by oil and global trade is cheap based on oil. Oil has artificially keep prices and the value of things low, it is like many many man hours a litre and when a little of petrol is $1.50how can may hours compare. When we are faced with the true man hours cost of things life will be very different and that's just the start.

    We have lost our rail networks, the most efficient method of transporting large quantities of goods and people, so my husband says. We can import vegetables cheaper than we can grow them in our own town. ,...

    Any way another great article on relocation can be found on 'adaptiion' a web site mag by Paula Hay. It's also in the preparedness section of life after the oil crash. I'm interested in talking to people about preparing and relocation in australia may create a separate posting.

    Knowlege is power be empowered by it rather than feeling it's all to big.

    I read that there are 3 common reactions to Peak Oil Awareness
    1) DENIAL technology and market forces will prevail.
    2) DEPRESSION it's all too big and uncontrolable
    3) ACTION, PREPAREDNESS, TELLING OTHERS(this last bit is tricky) as the ones you most care about and want to be acting on this may exhibit reaction 1 or 2.)

    I figure being a Permie gives us the advantage of having the mindset and beginnings of ideas for self and community preparedness. Good luck.
     
  2. Jez

    Jez Junior Member

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    IMO there's two ways to look at relocation for Peak Oil preparation Jackie...

    a) That relatively urban areas will be best...some public transport, relatively short commutes when you do have to drive, many people with ideas to ease some of the probable hardship, plus all the advantages which fairly urban living already provides.

    b) That urban areas and cities will have greatly exacerbated incidence of theft, violence and other anti-social crime in the troubled economic times expected, and that it's better to have land in a fairly isolated place where you can be largely self-sufficient.

    Which is right? Probably both IMO...I guess it's up to the individual which they prefer and what sort of lifestyle they hope to lead in the future. Also, how successfull either a) or b) is can largely depend on regionally specific factors...not all places will have the same incidences of problems.

    Personally, our focus has been on getting rid of the mortgage, reducing debt to zero, moving to a fairly isolated rural area with a good all year growing climate where property is much cheaper...then becoming almost entirely self-sufficient to greatly reduce any need to travel. But we love a fairly rural lifestyle...it doesn't suit everyone.
     
  3. 9anda1f

    9anda1f Administrator Staff Member

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    Hi Jackie,

    I am very interested in your ideas and thoughts. I have followed the permaculture ideology since the late 1960's, mainly through the original Mother Earth News magazine/movement, which contained many articles and interviews with the permaculture founders in Australia. I have always felt slightly uneasy with the path of government, but now I am getting quite alarmed. I am quite sure that being in the USA is not the right answer for me. I'm thinking that "turmoil" is perhaps an understatement for what may be heading our way.

    You mention 3 million Melbornians being too close...imagine how it might be here! I've never even thought of Tasmania and was more leaning towards Western Australia. But anyhow, your ideas are very sound and timely. Be interesting to see what develops from your thread here!

    Thanks for posting!

    9anda1f
     
  4. RobWindt

    RobWindt Junior Member

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    G'day Jackie, The article "beyond hope" and various thoughts and influences are posted at https://renascent.ratbag.googlepages.com/ If you find the time to look over this it may be helpful.
    I'm just across Westernport from you and am currently building a woodgas producer for my long suffering holden ute as public transport is a joke here and fuel prices look set to skyrocket https://www.gengas.nu/byggbes/index.shtml

    I started the group "intentional community victoria" three years ago to guage interest in an IC in Sth Gippsland but have since swung around to the idea that we are better off utilising the existing infrastructure in small towns, Maleny has many small cooperatives and is a good example of the possibilities https://groups.yahoo.com/group/intention ... yvictoria/

    As for suitable areas think water first and foremost, then food and firewood. SE Victoria and Tasmania are among the least drought affected areas but do not underestimate the value of existing social networks wherever you are.

    Holmgrens' work on re organising the suburbs is brilliant and will greatly help in a slow crash, but if the economy (or fuel supplies) disappears overnight then i would rather be in a very small country town well out of harms way, but not as a stranger.

    Rob
     
  5. jackie

    jackie Junior Member

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    peak oil

    Rob, I agree with the idea of a small country town. We also are of the oppinion that we need to use existing infastructure rather than creating an intentional community. ( think that's what you were also saying.) Fee we need a town with rail line, water, the right people, furtile soil, smallish community, elevation( covering the sea level rise issue), and unfortunately a defendable location. I feel bad even thinking it but I must have watched kevin cosner in "the Postman" one two many times.

    I sway between moving shortly to extablish a property, plant the right trees etc, and become a part of a community and holding out a few years as the property we are on has great captial gains potential for anyone wanting a peak oil, rural, close to town, partly established permie/passive solar etc place close to town, bay, and city. And as an added for some bonus the potential view of consumerism gone mad. I did say we're close to town, even the big box stores think so.

    In terms of the mortgage well two kids and 1 income so we can home school makes that a distant goal. So many things to think about.

    Moving to tassie we'd be debt free, and income less. Timing.... how longs's a piece of string.

    As for being in Seattle USA, I'll warn you Aussie politics unfortunately isfollowing the american and corporation line, so we'll probably help your country use every last drop of oil fighting for the last drop. Crazy stuff.
    Where is a good haven I don't know, but will stay in Australia. Just feels right.

    Looking forward to further discussion on the topic.
     
  6. Cornonthecob

    Cornonthecob Junior Member

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    New Zealand would be another nice spot.
     
  7. Mungbeans

    Mungbeans Junior Member

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    Dreamin' dreams of the Sunshine Coast (and sans mortgage).
     
  8. Cornonthecob

    Cornonthecob Junior Member

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    You want to get in quick! Land costs an arm and a leg!
     
  9. Mungbeans

    Mungbeans Junior Member

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    Compared to Sydney? :lol: :lol:
     
  10. Sonya

    Sonya Junior Member

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    There are a couple of interesting dvds doing the permaculture circuit - The Power of Community (how Cuba survived peak oil when the Soviet Union cut off their trade supplies) and the End of Suburbia (interviews with peak oil experts at a swedish conference).

    Also David Holmgren and Richard Heinberg one of the experts from End of Suburbia are doing a national speaking tour next month. visit https://www.holmgren.com.au for details.

    Preparedness is the answer - urban, suburban and rural solutions are needed. Permaculture is ahead of the pack - community, networking, and the skills you learn are all vital for the future.

    Sonya.
     
  11. frosty

    frosty Junior Member

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    I think away from cities is the way to go ........ food for city dwellers is going to become very short with the demise of petroleum based fertilizers ......... farmers dont know how to farm they just use the soil to hold the plants up while they pour petrochemicals and water on them

    if you have food and people can see it and steal it they will

    if it wasnt for the defence training area (dta)we would have an ideal location ....... within a rural community with good neighbours yet also we are secluded from the road ........ we are working hard on self sufficiency with vegetables and our goats ...... and in this type of country the natural bush provides lots of goat feed that is not as dependant on rain fall as pasture ....... and we are about to have to test that as we have no pasture germination at all and hay is impossible to buy .......

    we are also within reasonable driving distance of Perth and high enough (100m) above sea level yet near the coast where the climate change may not be as drastic

    Western australia is in the grip NOW of very drastic climate change ....... we are having had the driest year on record in areas that do no usually have drought ...... to June we had had aprox 140mm of rain instead of the average of 540 mm July continues to be dry yet we have also had record cold temps

    9anda1f I would not make any definate decisions about coming to WA just yet .........

    for us the DTA spoils it all here and with the increasing oil wars and eventually water wars we are going to have to move ....... like everyone we are just not sure where or when or for that matter how ........ we own here with no mortgage but prices are low due to the DTA ........ I am chemcially injured so cant live near current chemcial farming because the spray drift will kill me

    watching this thread carefully for ideas where to go

    frosty
     
  12. dewbee

    dewbee Junior Member

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    every available scrap of land

    i just attended a students of sustainability conference and as part of that attended a public forum in the vicinity which spoke about preparing for peak oil... one speaker talked about how britain got the nation growing it's own veges with "every spare inch of land must be cultivated" policies: in eighteen months the country was feeding itself.


    also cuba is a good example with how they coped with the U.S. imposed embargoes.

    Community Supported Agriculture is another good system... just google it and read...


    community gardens projects as well are a worthwhile occupation...


    getting a bike


    why relocate when you can just change what you are doing in your local area????
     
  13. Loris

    Loris Junior Member

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    We were working on the "Sydney or the bush" method - (not literally). We spent ten years in the outback. It felt good like you were isolated and cushioned from problems in the outside world. People were more inclined to leave you go about your business unlike the S'shine Coast where every neighbour seems to feel like a stakeholder in your decisions.

    However, it was obvious that all we needed was a transport strike and things would get wildly bad out there quickly. Food was trucked in from closest of about 500klm away. Railway had been closed down (!!) and medical care was hard to access. Even the instruments that they used in the small bush hospital had to be transported over 200klm to be sterilized.

    Milk and bread ran short even when there was water over the road for a short time.

    Again, you can get around these things but in the event of long term chaos, isolated areas will be forgotten about. This might be good or bad. We are now playing both sides of the coin with family in the outback and now we are here on the high rainfall coast.

    Leads to good conversations about who is going to live with who when the inevitable happens.
     
  14. Loris

    Loris Junior Member

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    Do we need to put some time and thought into putting together a strategy for hard times?
     
  15. Tezza

    Tezza Junior Member

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    I too beleived that eco villages was the place to go back wen i got into Permaculture..17 yrs now I lived in Suburbia...Perth....Just as i seeing the light, Some nasty types were ripping me off over my mortgage...

    Banks were charging up to 18% interest

    My neighbers were breaking into my house daily..........

    Insurence company refusing to cover my losses then told us no more policies
    you shoulda heard what i shouted down the phone to them :twisted: :twisted:

    I found 300 acres with fresh spring water enough to house over 100 households....

    Enquiries made me realise how big a job to actually get the show going.Much before trying to please everybody re the housing side of it...

    High prices..inflation made us relocate to Broomehill 300 klms south small town only bout 300 people mostly farmers and tree changers lots of alternatives,etc etc,,Land was dirt cheep.No crime...well very little mainly but outa towners were visiting......

    I live in Suburbia in my town now Its fantastic..I vist Perth Monthly to visit Family Freinds and dentists lol.AND i hate it..Too many People..Too many Cars.Too manyDickheads.Too much crime..Too many houses .Too much Polution,too much crime..and lastly and more importantly prices have gone up 500% in 13 years..thats no missprint either"500%increase"

    I moved too broomehill to do IT down here Its 300 mts above sea level..
    300 klms from Perth..Land was chep as dirt up untill a year ago....

    Its a bit Suss how land can stay so low for a 100 years then in 2 years jump so high.....It is a set up. we had real estate companys moving in and setting up when no one rally wanted land or houses here..
    I was ondering how/why would a large real estate mob move to a dying town for,with six reps ..........well surprise surprise prices went up 100%
    OVER a YEAR..I wonder what happened?????? :twisted: :twisted: .

    anyway suffice to say every spare vacant block was sold and rebought allost over night.........Funny aint it all those investers waiting another 100 yrs, now we dont have enough builders to build houses. so most will stay vacant blocks.....Land revalued by a 100% is still only worth what it was for last 100 yrs but now...suckers paid over the top for an investment that will never go anywhere :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

    I dont Care at all I rent mine of the government for chiken shit rent....

    Ya cant own Land cause you cant take it with you :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :.
    Even if you Do own Land Weather its a 1/4 acre suburban block or a million acres like some farms in Aussie.....You cant keep it..You dont Own it..You cant even dig on it or improve it with out gov say so...

    I beleive the Iraqis own IRAQ...Well they think they Do as well......

    We all know how much the average Iraqie has to say on their behalf re their land and country.......Do you think little johnny gonna let you keep your land if the government wants it.......

    In closing Id rather Live or do comunities in far away places..where johnny dont want your dirt.........

    I can just Imagine Suburbia (perth anyways) in the event of civil disruption......Its scarey.....Dont bother growing food some B will jump your fence for it.Hide your fuel too cars will get milked dry.

    Im off Im depressing myself now......


    Tezza

    Ps I still think ecos are the way to go but maybe just a loose collection of alternatives in any number of small town, but finding that TOWN is the hard ask........
     
  16. RobWindt

    RobWindt Junior Member

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    "I still think ecos are the way to go but maybe just a loose collection of alternatives in any number of small town, but finding that TOWN is the hard ask..."

    At this stage we can still pick a town, any town, but networks and trust take time to build. If you can make do where you are then do what you can with what you have, isn't that the essence of permaculture?

    In Sth Gippsland I'm partial to
    Kongwak (weekly craft /produce market, recently started PC group, vacant general store suitable for a co-op)
    Meeniyan/ Mirboo Nth/ Boolara (growing alternative scene)
    Fish Creek/ Poowong and any number of tiny towns in the hills of central Gippsland

    Cheers
    Rob
    currently living in a derelict community hall at Glen Forbes
     
  17. permanut

    permanut Junior Member

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    This is a very good topic. I have been learning about BIOREGIONS, essentialy its about 'living in place'. :idea:
    Aspects of Bioregional anlaysis are as follows;
    1- Location (the area it occupies in space).
    2-Climate*
    3-Topography
    4-Geology/Geomorphology*
    5-Soils
    6-Biodiversity (Flora and Fauna assembly)
    7-History
    8-Economy
    9-Culture/Polotics
    10-Hydrology (watershed)
    * 2 & 4 pretty much determin the rest.

    Nothern new south wales aint a bad spot, though its well expensive :shock: (is'nt everywhere nowadays). If you can't afford to buy a place yourself I'd recomend aligning your self with people who are already there,who won't mind if you come and start 'sharecropping'. :D
    There are lots of permie people heading to Tassie, its just too cold IMO,though alot more affordable. :(
     
  18. Richard on Maui

    Richard on Maui Junior Member

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    You just gotta have coconuts if you're gonna make it through the peak oil catastrophe.
    If you've got coconuts, everything else follows. 8)
     
  19. permanut

    permanut Junior Member

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    I hear you Richard! My nuts are big,but not that big! :lol:
    Seriously though, Coconuts are a complete lifesaving package.
    I remember seeing a documentory about the Bouganville revolution, some would call the worlds first eco-revolution.
    Australian and British mining interests were destroying the Bouganville island. The locals kicked them out :D , and then they were held under Australian and PNG military ( :twisted: ) embargo making them unable to trade with the outside world. They were forced to relearn how to live with nature again through nessecity. The Coconut saved them. They got 3 grades of oil from the coconuts, they used the oils for everything from cooking, lighting, cleaning the weapons (they captured from :twisted: Aussie/PNG military) to actually running their cars and generators that they salavaged from the trashed mine. THE COCONUT REVOLUTION they called it! :D
     
  20. bazman

    bazman Junior Member

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    Howard outlines energy superpower vision......

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200607/s1688522.htm
    Snip
    On the issue of water, the Prime Minister says people in cities should not tolerate water restrictions.
    He says there are no reasons why cities should be gripped by water problems.
    "Our goal should be nothing less that to drought-proof our large coastal cities," he said.
    "Having a city on permanent water restrictions makes about as much sense as having a city on permanent power restrictions.
    Snip

    Just be awhere most of rural australia will be made into dams, well just all the areas where it rains.
     

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