Our reality is THE reality

Discussion in 'The big picture' started by heuristics, Sep 19, 2008.

  1. springtide

    springtide Junior Member

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    Re: Our reality is THE reality

    Hi, i thought i might be able to add some thoughts - and if i'm a bit off can someone pleeeease let me know.

    This post is eluding to doomerism (cringe at the word) so here goes

    Firstly it's true - money will always be paper but gold will always be gold - it is the first place traditional investors head to when TSHTF (try whiskeyandgunpowder.com for some alternatives - they are into making money out of peak everything)(and predicted the usual gold, oil, rare metals price rise - credit crunch, etc)
    Then again you cant eat gold...

    When? - America is a good indicator as any for house prices, credit, unemployment all happening 6 months before Aust so it might be helpful for food too, the
    general idea is not to need to stockpile too much stuff.

    Property prices - anything with an acre or decent back yard would become expensive, anything in the city worthless and with millions of hungry people in the same spot life would become... awkward.

    Bank deposits? - there would have to be a massive run on the banks and although the federal government guarantee the banks. The pollies may have other problems and i wouldn't rely on the ATM.

    As for what supplies you may want for mad max 4 i grabbed this list off https://www.thepowerhour.com/news/items_disappearfirst.htm
    it relates to the Sarajevo conflict (we may not be at war what it is what desperate people went for so i think it has some relevance)

    THE 100 THINGS THAT DISSAPPEAR FIRST

    1. Generators (Good ones cost dearly. Gas storage, risky. Noisy...target of thieves; maintenance etc.)
    2. Water Filters/Purifiers
    3. Portable Toilets
    4. Seasoned Firewood. Wood takes about 6 - 12 months to become dried, for home uses.
    5. Lamp Oil, Wicks, Lamps (First Choice: Buy CLEAR oil. If scarce, stockpile ANY!)
    6. Coleman Fuel. Impossible to stockpile too much.
    7. Guns, Ammunition, Pepper Spray, Knives, Clubs, Bats & Slingshots.
    8. Hand-can openers, & hand egg beaters, whisks.
    9. Honey/Syrups/white, brown sugar
    10. Rice - Beans - Wheat
    11. Vegetable Oil (for cooking) Without it food burns/must be boiled etc.,)
    12. Charcoal, Lighter Fluid (Will become scarce suddenly)
    13. Water Containers (Urgent Item to obtain.) Any size. Small: HARD CLEAR PLASTIC ONLY - note - food grade if for drinking.
    16. Propane Cylinders (Urgent: Definite shortages will occur.
    17. Survival Guide Book.
    18. Mantles: Aladdin, Coleman, etc. (Without this item, longer-term lighting is difficult.)
    19. Baby Supplies: Diapers/formula. ointments/aspirin, etc.
    20. Washboards, Mop Bucket w/wringer (for Laundry)
    21. Cookstoves (Propane, Coleman & Kerosene)
    22. Vitamins
    23. Propane Cylinder Handle-Holder (Urgent: Small canister use is dangerous without this item)
    24. Feminine Hygiene/Haircare/Skin products.
    25. Thermal underwear (Tops & Bottoms)
    26. Bow saws, axes and hatchets, Wedges (also, honing oil)
    27. Aluminum Foil Reg. & Heavy Duty (Great Cooking and Barter Item)
    28. Gasoline Containers (Plastic & Metal)
    29. Garbage Bags (Impossible To Have Too Many).
    30. Toilet Paper, Kleenex, Paper Towels
    31. Milk - Powdered & Condensed (Shake Liquid every 3 to 4 months)
    32. Garden Seeds (Non-Hybrid) (A MUST)
    33. Clothes pins/line/hangers (A MUST)
    34. Coleman's Pump Repair Kit
    35. Tuna Fish (in oil)
    36. Fire Extinguishers (or..large box of Baking Soda in every room)
    37. First aid kits
    38. Batteries (all sizes...buy furthest-out for Expiration Dates)
    39. Garlic, spices & vinegar, baking supplies
    40. Big Dogs (and plenty of dog food)
    41. Flour, yeast & salt
    42. Matches. {"Strike Anywhere" preferred.) Boxed, wooden matches will go first
    43. Writing paper/pads/pencils, solar calculators
    44. Insulated ice chests (good for keeping items from freezing in Wintertime.)
    45. Workboots, belts, Levis & durable shirts
    46. Flashlights/LIGHTSTICKS & torches, "No. 76 Dietz" Lanterns
    47. Journals, Diaries & Scrapbooks (jot down ideas, feelings, experience; Historic Times)
    48. Garbage cans Plastic (great for storage, water, transporting - if with wheels)
    49. Men's Hygiene: Shampoo, Toothbrush/paste, Mouthwash/floss, nail clippers, etc
    50. Cast iron cookware (sturdy, efficient)
    51. Fishing supplies/tools
    52. Mosquito coils/repellent, sprays/creams
    53. Duct Tape
    54. Tarps/stakes/twine/nails/rope/spikes
    55. Candles
    56. Laundry Detergent (liquid)
    57. Backpacks, Duffel Bags
    58. Garden tools & supplies
    59. Scissors, fabrics & sewing supplies
    60. Canned Fruits, Veggies, Soups, stews, etc.
    61. Bleach (plain, NOT scented: 4 to 6% sodium hypochlorite)
    62. Canning supplies, (Jars/lids/wax)
    63. Knives & Sharpening tools: files, stones, steel
    64. Bicycles...Tires/tubes/pumps/chains, etc
    65. Sleeping Bags & blankets/pillows/mats
    66. Carbon Monoxide Alarm (battery powered)
    67. Board Games, Cards, Dice
    68. d-con Rat poison, MOUSE PRUFE II, Roach Killer
    69. Mousetraps, Ant traps & cockroach magnets
    70. Paper plates/cups/utensils (stock up, folks)
    71. Baby wipes, oils, waterless & Antibacterial soap (saves a lot of water)
    72. Rain gear, rubberized boots, etc.
    73. Shaving supplies (razors & creams, talc, after shave)
    74. Hand pumps & siphons (for water and for fuels)
    75. Soysauce, vinegar, bullions/gravy/soupbase
    76. Reading glasses
    77. Chocolate/Cocoa/Tang/Punch (water enhancers)
    78. "Survival-in-a-Can"
    79. Woolen clothing, scarves/ear-muffs/mittens
    80. Boy Scout Handbook, / also Leaders Catalog
    81. Roll-on Window Insulation Kit (MANCO)
    82. Graham crackers, saltines, pretzels, Trail mix/Jerky
    83. Popcorn, Peanut Butter, Nuts
    84. Socks, Underwear, T-shirts, etc. (extras)
    85. Lumber (all types)
    86. Wagons & carts (for transport to and from)
    87. Cots & Inflatable mattress's
    88. Gloves: Work/warming/gardening, etc.
    89. Lantern Hangers
    90. Screen Patches, glue, nails, screws,, nuts & bolts
    91. Teas
    92. Coffee
    93. Cigarettes
    94. Wine/Liquors (for bribes, medicinal, etc,)
    95. Paraffin wax
    96. Glue, nails, nuts, bolts, screws, etc.
    97. Chewing gum/candies
    98. Atomizers (for cooling/bathing)
    99. Hats & cotton neckerchiefs
    100. Goats/chickens

    From a Sarajevo War Survivor:
    Experiencing horrible things that can happen in a war - death of parents and
    friends, hunger and malnutrition, endless freezing cold, fear, sniper attacks.

    1. Stockpiling helps. but you never no how long trouble will last, so locate
    near renewable food sources.
    2. Living near a well with a manual pump is like being in Eden.
    3. After awhile, even gold can lose its luster. But there is no luxury in war
    quite like toilet paper. Its surplus value is greater than gold's.
    4. If you had to go without one utility, lose electricity - it's the easiest to
    do without (unless you're in a very nice climate with no need for heat.)
    5. Canned foods are awesome, especially if their contents are tasty without
    heating. One of the best things to stockpile is canned gravy - it makes a lot of
    the dry unappetizing things you find to eat in war somewhat edible. Only needs
    enough heat to "warm", not to cook. It's cheap too, especially if you buy it in
    bulk.
    6. Bring some books - escapist ones like romance or mysteries become more
    valuable as the war continues. Sure, it's great to have a lot of survival
    guides, but you'll figure most of that out on your own anyway - trust me, you'll
    have a lot of time on your hands.
    7. The feeling that you're human can fade pretty fast. I can't tell you how many
    people I knew who would have traded a much needed meal for just a little bit of
    toothpaste, rouge, soap or cologne. Not much point in fighting if you have to
    lose your humanity. These things are morale-builders like nothing else.
    8. Slow burning candles and matches, matches, matches



    It's very "doomerish" but when i saw it i thought things like soap and toilet paper i figured a few boxes left sealed up in the roof would just in case would be good to have - for trade n whatever.
    It would be a mammoth task to store a life supply of stuff but as kids mum was always into bottling fruit/vegies, etc and yes a stove top machine is on my "to do" list - most people who are into this stuff would say buy the land, get to know your neighbours, build a nice little cellar - gradually stockpile it and slowly try to visit the supermarket less often, (and in America buy guns, barbed wire n stuff)

    I have been in some mild panic buys for cyclones in a mining town and they were a little scary - the shelves quickly emptied of bottled water, coke (doesn't really add life), canned food (baked beans, :cry: etc) and alcohol (i worked in environmental monitoring and a bottle shop :drinkers: ). if you have the basics go for things like stock cubes (makes anything taste great), sugar, salt, pepper trees, chicory or coffee bushes (life without coffee?), some extra petrol with the fuel stabiliser so it lasts. build a little stockplie and rotate stuff.

    I'm starting to ramble and any list would never be complete but if you have to partake in a commercial panic buy - take some friends along, imagine a david jones boxing day sale where everyone thinks they are shopping for their lives. i've done a few k-mart ones for my wife and her friends and came out with a lot of bruises :axe: .

    PS: Definately get to know your neighbours. and if Amerika does that multi billion debt buy out thing expect 2 years or so of artificial happiness then a more rapid decline.
     
  2. Nathan Edwards

    Nathan Edwards Junior Member

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    Re: Our reality is THE reality

    Great post dudes, carefully observing what's been going down has been like reading the most riveting novel ever and today I have to confess I purchased my first newspaper and the financial review in a very long time ( I just had to own a copy to show my kids one day if youknow what I'm saying!!). Yep 2 years would be awesome amount of leveraging time for my current trajectory. I own 10 acres in Castlemaine which I have been paying back with my wife like crazy and are down to $63,000 remaining. Only problem - no house on it. I have anticipated this time coming like so many other permies but it's always been tricky makin' dollars in a truly ethical way - I work in hospitality and the wasted food situation is terrible but with 3 compost bins and 2 worm farms that is regularly oversupplied there is only so much I can do (and I'm renting in Fitzroy). Thankfully the wife's dad is giving her $50,000 early inheritance which we are gonna spend asap on a dam or two (yes murray - goulbourne water are being a pack of %@#^^'s), swales, house site leveling and then go banana's on getting our long held dream of a straw bale built with solar (non - grid connected, water tanks - no town water, slow combustion wood stove etc etc...
    I do have a feeling though that we experienced permaculturalists (I have run a permaculture design business - with not a great deal of financial success but have had some good paying clients) will be in demand (especially people with gardening skills) which may stand us in good stead.
    In any case I am hopeful of some good outcomes and also not to foolish to imagine that this whole next decade is gonna be hassle free.
    Just really gotta get that house built and water on the joint
    Good luck and may the frogs be with you ....(and surface runoff sufficient)
    p.s. yeah I know september rainfall was fifth of the average falls!
     
  3. JoanVL

    JoanVL Junior Member

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    Re: Our reality is THE reality

    I agree with your post, and these bits resonate personally. I'm glad my husband and I were relatively tough with our sons (now grown and working): they have the skills, toughness, insight, and resilience to survive whatever the future throws at them. I'm glad my parents taught me all the coping skills they had to learn in the Great Depression.

    I'm English, and have always been fascinated by the Ancient Romans, particularly because so much archeology is left - Roman roads, Roman settlement remains etc. They had this 'modern' lifestyle that just vanished, partly because their system was intrinsically corrupt and elitist. Their standard of living did not reappear properly until relatively modern times. It just vanished for well over a thousand years - those posh homes with underfloor heating, indoor bathrooms, nice kitchens, lovely tiles and murals.... Oh how their situation changed a millennium and a half ago.

    Another thing that bothers me these days, especially from America, is the religiosity that seems to pervade public life, from the President downwards. There is nothing as bad as religion for destroying common sense, and giving excuses for abominations. I'm glad we've avoided most of that sort of thing so far, though Costello and Hillsong were a bit of a worry, until Costello's star faded.
     

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