OK, Lets' explore The Big Picture

Discussion in 'The big picture' started by zvall, Mar 29, 2015.

  1. zvall

    zvall Junior Member

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    I recently started a thread asking people what they thought about permaculture and psychedelic microdosing. Didn't get much interest lol But I found it frustrating explore what I want under that title. My middle name IS Big Picture. I see all subjects as interconnected, and it often disturbs me that when you talk in forums and mods come and say 'please keep this on topic'...? That to me is stifling, and regarding my understanding of permacultural principles it is a very limited understanding of understanding...

    So I really would like to take this opportunity here, in a section of the forums called The Big Picture to really push the boundaries of that potential

    Another poster who briefly joined the other thread, 9anda1f, I really love his signature, and would like to quote them as inspiration for this conversation of exploring bigger pictures
    So who wants to begin?
     
  2. 9anda1f

    9anda1f Administrator Staff Member

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    Thank you for your kind words Zvall.

    I've been reading this: https://www.ribbonfarm.com/2015/03/04/gardens-need-walls-on-boundaries-ritual-and-beauty/\
    It is a general essay about boundaries, permeability, and ultimately breaking down the impermeability of the societal-imposed boundaries between people to begin forming small interdependent groups (tribes in the purest sense) via shared ritual, a most human activity.

    Ran Prieur (Mar 11 post) had this to say about the essay:
    But I think there's more to it than these three points, mainly the mechanism for changing the "tiling" of our western society via shared ritual. Not necessarily religious or spiritual ritual either ... ritual may come in the form of shared work (harvest, construction, meals, celebration of the solstices).

    How do each of you perceive ritual activities relating to the building of community?
     
  3. zvall

    zvall Junior Member

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    I have read the article, but find it a little hard. Sometimes words form a kind of boundary for me--if they are not simple. But I think I get the gist. Have taken two quotes:

    It may not itself be 'teeming with life' but it's influence on the tides and women's menstruation, and its whole mythologically meaningful changes have been so poetically deep, and prepatriarchal, in regards its connections with our dreaming mind
    This reminds me of 'villages' in big cities where there usually is a different character to them

    But what would the author say about the destructive Enclosures which were erected to grab common land, and how this process also involves the internal. Divide and control

    the problem I have with ritual IF it becomes a tribal communal habit is that it then is done, and expected to be done--'for the good of the group'--and the individuals don't know why they are doing it, and if you question it you can get ostracized or worse. But IF ritual was agreed to be flexible and spontaneous and everyone could do their own and interpret it their own way, I would be more happier with that as LONG as the interpretation wasn't 'everything is just material' lol

    Ritual I feel could be what we are doing. Questioning understanding that questioning is like a river metaphorically speaking. it is both realizing that life is a depthess mystery but we can therefore ask questions in freedom, rather than the idea that we are heading for some final question which will find the theory of everything

    I am really into musical examples of this, and have been thinking about this--and applying it--myself lately. For example, I have always felt there is a concerted taboo amongst musicians, even ironically Jazz musicians (that hangout in forums) about playing by ear. Time and again if you broach that subject your inundated with guitarists telling you that you MUST learn theory. So I am wondering about this, and will want to get into it but don't want to drown you in this post lol
     
  4. 9anda1f

    9anda1f Administrator Staff Member

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    I lived in West Berlin for two years in the early 1970's, surrounded by a 4 meter concrete wall (and more). When this wall was first erected it was meant to be impermeable, but over time tiny porosities developed and by the time I got there, limited but sustained interactions between each side of the barrier were common. I would propose that there is no such thing as an impermeable barrier ... over time. Even arbitrary political/economic enclosures assembled for control will, over time, become permeable and ultimately crumble.

    Yes I agree with the thought, but let me define the terms. "Ritual" for me is the activity performed in awareness of it's significance. Activity performed as communal habit would be dogma, an activity repeatedly performed after the meaning has been lost. Promoting awareness of "our" collective relationships to time, place, and social/political structure is, in my opinion, the "prime motivation". = )

    Maybe a boundary of sorts, but you've shown it to be a very permeable boundary through your quick grasp of the concepts presented! Thank you!
     
  5. zvall

    zvall Junior Member

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    Yes, and now they have built a very ugly boundary in israel, so this insanity continues popping up. One wall comes down and then..... VERY ironically by Jewish people who should have learnt lessons from their persecutions by the Nazis

    But let me continue about the music illustration I started above, after hearing you mention it

    I read a very inspiring article about this from which I'll present several quotes:
    I wonder how many potential musicians have been put off/destroyed by this emphasis on left-brained theory approach to music. I personally have been very aware of the mind-fuckery of this which can block you from just letting go and experimenting. You worry about the silliest things and these can and do act as blocks. (And by the way I am not claiming those that DO love theory are wrong or are bad musicians)

    I have also experimented creatively making music including singing when having taken psychedelics, and recorded my efforts on audio-tapes. I believe that psychedelics are the magical medicine par excellence which inspire a spontaneous state of being

    First thing I noticed is that I seem to have more breath. The voice is more pronounced and qualitatively different. It is a feeling of being possessed. I would like to explain what I mean by this term:

    The term has been translated from the ancient Greek term 'enthousiasmos' which is also from where the 'English' word 'enthusiasm' is derived
    Then is the question: what do you mean by 'god'. This is a huge question. It is not meaning an abstract idea but the very consciousness-changing vegetation (especially psychoactive mushrooms) one would consume whereby you literally become possessed by the god--speaking mythically. The sense of 'you' is vastly expanded----Take the ancient Dionysos, the 'god of many names' which would include the god of ecstasy, and god of nature. S/he was also the very mushroom (John Allegro--The Sacred Mushroom and the Cross)! So this experience of god was an actual experience. You are possessed by some force, energy, spirituality seemingly greater than your usual idea of yourself. 'Ec Stasy
    So if you could see that some people may be stuck in rigid forms of thinking, of ritual, which of course may even include how they physically move, and so on---they have become 'static' and so ec stasis resolves this blockage if even for a few hours

    So when I have attempted to play guitar and sing when bemushroomed it is like a very spontaneous feeling, as though you instinctively know how to vocalize (ie ordinarily there may me anxiety from going from head voice to falsetto---a certain hesitance? And a rigid way of singing a song, as though you are listening to your fave singer sing it instead of SINGING it in your unique feeling way etc). You ARE the song. There does not seem any pretense, and you are spontaneous, and are not thinking ABOUT a song, or about how someone may sing it. You are directly in contact with the happening of it

    Some of my favourite guitar players and singers are the old Delta Blues players and they have this naturally, though of course they may have had a drop of moonshine too lol but I would prefer, given the choice, magic mushrooms

    Am I saying I can only play and sing after eating magic mushrooms? No. You learn, integrate, insights FROM these deep states

    Only a some time ago, I had eat just 10 little magic mushrooms and was experimenting with playing by ear and was So patient and relaxed and full of humour as I arranged melodies on the strings. Hitting 'wrong notes'/'weeds' was NOT seen as some terrible disaster but became part of spontaneous discovery which has inspired my playing now.
     
  6. 9anda1f

    9anda1f Administrator Staff Member

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    Nice post Zvall!
    I agree that there are also boundaries within our minds, albeit porous boundaries for the most part. Many approaches to first becoming aware of these boundaries, then letting the veils slip away, have been/are successful. The first step is the awareness and often some sort of "stimulus" is needed to provoke that awareness for, much like the Matrix movie, we humans frequently go through our lives permanently behind a veil of distorting, "programmed" patterns of thought. One must first become aware of these limiting patterns before becoming motivated to pursue moving beyond them. Not all who peek through the veil go on to expand their awareness! Some retreat into the comfortable state of being behind such veils. Sigh. Not all mind-boundaries are porous ... some become what we call "closed minds" or those unable/unwilling to examine new ideas.

    Sometimes this is the case with Permaculture in relation to Agriculture. Agriculture is an imposed system of thought based on control and domination of our environment which is tied into the idea that humans are separate from nature. Permaculture turns this on its head and strives to work with natural systems to continually build-up nature with the underlying awareness that we humans are an integral part of the natural systems on this planet. So many people involved with Agriculture I've met absolutely refuse to consider the differences in concept and approach between the two! Maybe the could use some external "stimulus"!
    = )
     
  7. zvall

    zvall Junior Member

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    Thank you for your compliment of my post, 9andA1f (btw how did you come to this name?)

    YES, damn right. I can very well imagine how people attached to the agriculture, mono-culture, worldview would strongly resist permaculture, and forest gardening. This IS rigid boundaries isn't it. This is what we are talking about. metaphorically they have erected a big impassable wall in their mind, and nothing can get past it. I have even heard this---that when people get these rigid views they actually can feel pain when they are threatened. This apparently was shown on an MMI when various people had their beliefs threatened this part of the bain would light up which would indicate pain ---The article I originally read about this was better than this, but cannot find other sources:

    So an urgent question:---how could you reason with someone, who you feel is missing the essential understanding about eg permaculture, that they have a rigid worldview which could be transcended if they were to just take a pinch of psychedelic? Of course their mindset may also include the whole propaganda against psychedelics!

    I am not sure if I have already shared this with you. But when I was 15, I had by that young age been turned into a bored-with -nature young teen who was OBSESSED with ugly big concrets cities, and crowds, traffic, and neon--the whole thing, and was getting a sadistic streak, and IN a big city, London I was living in at the time I 'by chance' met these people who turned me onto LSD. It began with them inviting me to a party and on the way presenting me with this tiny tiny half a blue pill (yes BLUE lol). I was naive, and assumed it was speed (which was in the cews a lot at that time). So I had my first trop then, and went onto have more before I reached 16, and the most life-changing for me were when we left the flat at about dawn and walked past peoples gardens, and into parks. It was this where I rediscovered and HOW that nature was ecstatically magical and alive and I was utterly connected with everything.
    I have this amazing memory of reclining by the Serpentine (a lake in Hyde Park) and was absolutely in a trance looking at the early sunlight on the water which was just completely alive.
    What is also mythical for me. (by this I mean that what we usually call mythology is some old ancient stuff from the past, but mythical reality is rather living now---think of the Australian Aborigine Dreamtime. 'it' is here)
    ....well, I am reading a very DEEP book at the moment titled From a Broken Web by Catherine Keller. And she is talking about the utter fear the patriarchal 'heroic ego' has of the Serpent and its serpentine energies which he sees as a 'monster' he wants to everlastingly destroy. So wondrously ironic and synchronistic then that this enduring memory I have of connecting with nature again is gazing into the Serpentine lol
     
  8. zvall

    zvall Junior Member

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    *too late for me to edit post.

    Of course what I meant to type was 'what we usually call mythology isn't [just] some old ancient stuff from the past...
     
  9. andrew curr

    andrew curr Moderator

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    Where u from Zvall???
     
  10. zvall

    zvall Junior Member

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    Manchester. UK
     
  11. zvall

    zvall Junior Member

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    ...so yeah 'permaculture' is really not just 'looking at the land' so to speak, but at all entities. What can we do to reconnect? We look into that IMO by investigating why and how we have disconnected. A big reason is the suppression of memory. The made-to-forget how the land, and our meaning of life was taken from us via violence and mindcontrol
    Check this article out, for example:
    The same of course happens to all indigenous peoples who get brutalized by the vile sick insane control freak mindset which has lost soul/heart/feeling and contact with nature. In American 'reservation' there is same problems of self-destructive habits. Their land and meaning of life is taken

    'Westerners' experience of those is older, and the memory of it even more suppressed, so when people resort to alcoholism, drug habits, and are generally psychologically and spiritually disturbed--which may manifest in a whole host of ways, including deep sadness, and even visions--what does this insane fucked up culture do? ...hands up?? It calls it 'mental illness'!!

    I have a quote in one of my journals I will try and type out here about an Australian Aborigine in utter distress, wailing and weeping and shaking because of land and whole life being brutally taken from him and his family and people and his distress is being diagnosed 'mentally ill' by the European colonizer!

    THAT is a central mindcontrol of this culture. Whereas before it was mainly their religious indoctrination, now it is this bogus myth (not supported by medical science) of mental illness. This foul toxic myth let's this toxic ecocidal civilization off the hook, because it says to the person who 'cannot cope' 'look. YOU are a defective robot who has a chemical imbalance. trust us and taken these chemicals which will restore it, but you must keep taking them'...And people have FORGOTTEN the massive abuse been done to them, which has them as slaves/'robot' (which means 'forced labour'). Of course they have family problems too. But there are many people who will claim they have 'everything'--the home, family, car. but feel deeply depressed and they don't know why...
     
  12. ronnon

    ronnon Junior Member

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    I've often wondered, what is the math on a study? So say they are researching Mental Illness A. Maybe 3 research centers, 10-100 test subjects? maybe observe them for 10 years. So that's .0000000167 % of the world population observed over a decade. From that they write a paper(s) describing all they observed, while dosing them with crazy amounts of medication. Said papers may or may not actually contain any truthful data, depending on the funding of the research. Drug Trials don't require a disease to be tested, just a symptom. but we have a successful diagnosis protocol and dosing for Mental Illness A. They test aftermarket parts for go karts harder than this...

    Mental illness has been a slavery tool lashed upon us by some truly sick fuckers. Don't get me wrong tho, I believe we should observe our pysches, our conscience mind as well as the subconscience and document the abnormalities as well as the health of the mind. And I do believe that there are some seriously disturbed people out there. The vast majority of them were infact products of dosing children with large amounts of drugs that manipulated their brain chemistry. The Dare program started by Regan started the drugs are bad for you unless the doctors gives them to you, belief system. Go to any major city in the USA and go to and emergency room. See how many people are there for coming off their meds cause they ran out. That's another of those .000000167% numbers. The people in the emergency room suffering from this economic situation simply didn't have the money to get their govt. supplied fix for their diagnosed condition. And I'm not bashing them, they are hooked, and slaves. But the bigger problem is, this is just a precursor to getting just the USA off Big Pharma. What happens when they decide to restrict an area of a certain kind of mood/ mental/ mind drug? I would put the younger population 18-35 in the USA at 70% self medicating individuals. Recreation drug use being a minor problem in comparison to prescription drugs. I would rather them all be smoking pot and slamming beers instead of the crazy shit Pharma cooks up in their super secret advanced labs that make your ass leak, tendons dissolve, and enslaves you... Those poor bastards get yanked off their meds all in the same week and look out. We will be the poor bastards as they burn down the freaking zip code.

    It just makes no logical sense. Why would you knowingly try and build an unstable population? I mean, if you really think about it, what kind of sick twisted shit box has allowed this to prosper and continue. Well, the answer is us. To tie this into permaculture... science fails time and time again. The church failed long ago. Govt. can't even tell a good lie anymore. Greed, money and power have defeated nearly all reason and creativity. Permaculture offers a single point of peaceful rebellion, a reconnection to the rest of who we are, an organism we call planet Earth. But while in our paradise shielded inside nature, let us not forget the Big Picture, the others out there and among us. Even with all the evil in the world spreading its lust for darkness touching every man woman and child, small little food forests, Earth buildings, shared community areas showing up everywhere... permaculture keeps popping up. And it radiates like the sun to all that encounter it. Our peaceful rebellion is winning,
     
  13. zvall

    zvall Junior Member

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    My way of trying to encourage radical resolving of the mass mind control many of us are under is to look at the mythological roots which drive that insane mindSET and the mythological roots which they suppressed.
    I have found trying to discuss this with various groups and individuals virtually impossible, because it seems a taboo subject because I have been met with mostly silence, and also hostility, censoring, and curt responses eg 'I do not want to talk about it'! But as I see this, unless we DO face stuff which may disturb us then we are destined to repeat the same old crap--which has happened in other 'revolutions' of the past. However, IF we can become aware of the mind-control then surely this becoming aware of it is the undermining of it? To do this we also have to question our own worldviews

    Since 9/11 and then the UK 7/7, I started becoming aware that all over these events is a code, an occult code that involves numbers, wordplay, symbolism, and then you find same numbers and symbolism and astrological stuff connected with their BUILDINGS--measurements, locations, dates being built etc etc etc, and times they make speeches and so on. And you cannot fail to see when looking into all this that the ruling class follow an occult belief system. The very term 'occult' literally means 'hidden', and if you like it is, and it is hidden in plain sight. What this means is that it CAN be so hidden because we have been mindcontrolled NOT to see it, and if pointed out to ridicule such info and call it 'conspiracy theory'

    The worldviews that ARE accepted consensually are the traditional world religions, the ideologies like Communism, Capitalism, Fascism, and the scientific worldview which is THE most accepted one. But like I say, unless we begin becoming aware of the powers behind the more hidden occult, then that un-consciousness is what is working against us really getting to the roots of why things are the way they are and continue to be, DESPITE so-called changes of worldviews

    This doesn't mean some dry static linear investigation---another '2012' pie in the sky hope. The very exploration of this undoes the mindcontrol and central of this mindcontrol is the divide and control strategy ALL the masks of the patriarchy use---dividing us from our very being, emotions, sensuality, feelings, instincts, and critical thinking/questioning, but also from others, other species, and the whole natural world, and universe. So the learning about this is the unlearning of the mindcontrol having been done to us for many many generations, and continuuing, which is the re-member-ing of the memory that has been suppressed from us
     

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