G'day Kevin '...the real causes of climate change'. Are you referring to the following, perhaps? NASA (no date) Global Climate Change - Causes '...the media' I guess you are referring to MSM (mainstream media)? Here, in Australia, climate science is readily discussed via the national broadcaster, the ABC (see, for example: ABC Science - Climate Change). The problem is, from memory, only around 7% of all Australians regularly view the ABC. Yes, I agree. The general public are 'turned off' by the antics of adversarial politicians in particular, and inane 'public' commentary in general. The only solution, as many of my colleagues would agree, is to continue to fight for the free and secular education of all the world's people. Cheerio, Markos
Yes I know of them, but never underestimate Monsanto's obsession with monopolizing the industry. I believe David Suzuki spoke against ArborGen.
Markos, I re-read the book 1491 and I strongly understand how much negative environmental impact humans had on North & South America, do you think climate models currently take that information into account as well? Or do you believe as I do that things are worse off then the current science models predict?
G'day Pak The scientific method for measuring past climate trends in the context of human activity varies. Examples of methods employed include: dendroclimatology, paleoclimatology, etc. Conversely, the predicting of future trends is not an exact science. Hence the 'bands' of variation we see in current climate model projections. However, and given that science always errs on the side of caution, I feel confident in adopting the position that we must prepare for the worst in terms of change scenarios. As such, I see (as I'm sure you do) behaviour-changing paradigms such as permaculture leading the way. Cheerio, Markos
An article, that people reading this thread, might "enjoy" Climate change denialism, paedophilia and Fairfax Media
Actually on this point which I often repeat EVERYWHERE, I'm referring to this constant blaming and focusing on warmer temps and higher CO2s. Those are only symptoms. Does anyone else get that ? Yes of course, factories around the globe should be pumping out less, but you ALL know that will never happen. The turn around on this whee it started to get worse was around 1990s when Communism fell and Capitalism through manufacturing consumer good cheaply was seen as the savior for soured and wreaked as a result of Militarism. It's not just the media, but also the scientists themselves parrot, "Global Warming" & increasing CO2s. Destroying forests and other vegetation systems are what is making the climate take a dump. Vegetation creates, moderates and maintains weather around the globe. Take those components out of the picture one by one piece by piece and watch the whole frigging thing fall apart as it is now. From 1990s, Forests were heavily attacked for raw materials and the stats on charts expose that. Almost immediately thereafter this wholesale clearcutting, more extreme temps and CO2 rises take the same dramatic rise in the charts immediately following on the coat tails of deforestation historical chart trends. And yet, for decades other scientists in various fields have reported on the many complex anomalies associated with forest and climate driving. So much so that you can investigate much of the present modern Weather Modification technological innovations and patents which are nothing more than plagiarized nature and hijacking and copying it's mechanisms. This really isn't a tough read anymore.
yes, earths internet, on the symptoms bit, i make my choices using the "cause and effect rule", too much now teh sciences and their followers identify and effect and take another effect the cause, there is no glory or wealth to be gained identifying the true and real cause. our plea's for honesty and fact fall on deaf ears and blind eyes, we get labelled as "deniers" because we won't hold these faceless nameless people in high stead and esteem ah! this debate goes on and on, why? because those who promote this theory of co2 climate change have not yet sold it to the broader grassroots public, most of which believe it is the greed of the powerful in their lust to destroy habitat forest for the gain of wealth that causes this man made climate change, there has been a climate cahnge process in being for near on 6k years, that is the nature of things. now of course these scientists and their followers have confused the issue. there is mass destruction of habitat forests to our north (apart from the almost total destruction in oz) threatening the extinction of animals the orangatan for one, all for the furniture industry and to grow oil palms, a very good reason why the monsoonal trough is less active than it should be, where our rain generates from. everywhere where greed and power play a big part in human misery their is the evidence, oil/gas in central west africa, destruction of habitat in the congo, same in the amazon area, in qld here greed is destrying our brigalow barrier habitats and creating deserts, heat waves and fires like qld has never had before that used to be the realms of down south after their mass destruction of the mulga barrier habitat. then follows mass land errosion from wind and rain, look at those slopes in tassie where they take these magnificent tree from to turn into chip or ply wood, how disrespectfull is that, how dominating over defensless nature and our weather. destruction of forests in malaysia to build an automotive city just to produce more cars to cause more pollution, this is called in touch and in balance science. they're still preaching a total mystery. weather should be predicted by observation as it once was when they reached up to 70% correct predictions now they are flat out attaining 50%, all this new fangled stuff can be manipulated just like the theory science of climate. there is as yet and never will be any cold hard facts in this less than 50 year old science, that is trying to control our lives and succeeding in only increasing the cost of living, the more it costs to eat and live the more the poor suffer.. for the new year and for generations to come we need to return to fact, not theory or modelling, we need to return to common sense and sense sadly lacking. it's been said before how can we trust some faceless nameless person to make our lives more expensive to live when medical science fails us, once there was around 16 chem' co's researching antibiotics for the more powerfull bugs in our bodies caused by the massive use of antibiotics in the production of meat animals, now there are only 4 as their is not enough profit in antibiotics. have a good year len
G'day Kevin From the previously linked NASA article: On Earth, human activities are changing the natural greenhouse. Over the last century the burning of fossil fuels like coal and oil has increased the concentration of atmospheric carbon dioxide (CO2). This happens because the coal or oil burning process combines carbon with oxygen in the air to make CO2. To a lesser extent, the clearing of land for agriculture, industry, and other human activities have increased concentrations of greenhouse gases. Actually, in the past, the chain of reporting went something like this: Scientists published in peer reviewed journals evidence of the relationship between increasing CO2 and climate change - the overwhelming majority of which supporting the position - and that was the end of their involvement in the process. MSM then cherry picked from these results whichever 'story' best suited them in terms of their vested interests (i.e. those that would pay for the 'opinion' of editorials in favour of their business interests). This in turn gave the impression that the science behind climate change was undecided, and that further evidence was required. In reality, the science has been settled for quite some time. Only more recently have scientists taken on the MSM and their interests, the result being the big push back and drivel refuting the science of climate change as seen spewing out of some MSM outlets today. I agree with you, and so does the overwhelming majority of the world's climate scientists. We need to halt deforestation, and we need to restore the natural balance of Earth's ecosystems. However, the most pressing need in order to stave of the worst effects of climate change is the need to halt GHG emissions, and the need to restore the natural balance of Earth's biosphere. Any 'scientific' reporting to the contrary is likely to be rubbish. Cheerio, Markos
this does not make sense What faceless nameless people are you talking about? Really or is it a minority of idiots who refuse to look at the evidence and politicians on the right who see some value in denying the evidence? So, are you arguing for, or against man made Climate Change now? How? seems you are the confused one this seems to be an agument that supports MMCC this confused rambling argument seems to support man made climate change. Not sure where you are coming from. Rubbish Len better technology makes for better prediction plenty of "cold hard" facts but you refuse to look at them. How is climate science making the "poor suffer" rubbish We agree here at least What has the overuse of antibiotics in raising animals got to do with Climate Change? Very rambling illogical, blinkered, silly, confused arguments Len
michael, i have the right to my thoughts and opinions like anyone else on this form and thread. you of all will realise we cannot return to sense and common sense whilst this scientific drivel goes on. you have never heard of cause and effect then? it is how i work any problems i may have out, i don't treat the effect i find the real cause. those minority to speak of are the majority out in the real world and they are hardly idiots, sounds like you are applying ego there, the common man where i live uses sense and common sense and none of what they see from teh sciences uses any of that just theory and more theory and their modelling which provides no earthly answers outside the halls of in the darkness science. you won't admit they are nameless but at the very least faceless people in the science. so saying you don't understand words might be seen as a reflection on you. or are you applying peer pressure as science does? just shows the depth of science corruption it happens in medical science as well, that is the antibiotic factor, comparison. but seemingly you are allowed to criticise i gave my thoughts and opinions as the topic says. if you can't cope with that then that is your issue, the science is only convincing itself and it few followers who oddly enough are mostly scientists hey, like birds of a feather flocking together. have a nice one michael i will and as yet me and those around me where i live are not sold on this pup. i was a mower mechanic the only revue that gained me my job was customer satisfaction they are the people who paid the boss for my work, if i was no good i had no job(pity not all work under such honest revue), so i have no time for exclusivality where each pats each other on the back and says how well they did, we who pay for the incorrect theories get no say. len
G'day Len Found this little ditty recently, and thought I'd share it with you: May you find serenity and tranquility in a world you may not always understand. May the pain you have known and the conflict you have experienced give you the strength to walk through life facing each new situation with optimism and courage. Always know that there are those whose love and understanding will always be there, even when you feel most alone. May you discover enough goodness in others to believe in a world of peace. May a kind word, a reassuring touch, a warm smile be yours every day of your life, and may you give these gifts as well as receive them. Remember the sunshine when the storm seems unending. Teach love to those who know hate, and let that love embrace you as you go into the world. May the teaching of those you admire become part of you, so that you may call upon them. Remember, those whose lives you have touched and who have touched yours are always a part of you, even if the encounters were less than you would have wished. May you not become too concerned with material matters, but instead place immeasurable value on the goodness in your heart. Find time in each day to see the beauty and love in the world around you. Realize that each person has limitless abilities, but each of us is different in our own way. What you may feel you lack in one regard may be more than compensated for in another. What you feel you lack in the present may become one of your strengths in the future. May you see your future as one filled with promise and possibility. Learn to view everything as a worthwhile experience. May you find enough inner strength to determine your own worth by yourself, and not be dependent on an other's judgments of your accomplishments. May you always feel loved. I truly hope you have a great new year, Len Cheerio, Markos (an evil scientist)
yes we will have a great new year with the challenges to living day by day being made harder in part by science and that includes all the poor and under trodden. our grocery bill ash gone from around $130 per fortnight to now $200 even by cutting out items we once bought. we feel loved even if only in our family. yes our future is full of promise but not by material things. our providence from our new gardens is a boon, we share much even good soil. our future of course will be governed by other here on earth. we like all the poor just need to find the path to existence in their ever changing ball park. that ditty is good many other need to abide some by it, we have our charter to follow which was written before those words above which reflect our life as we understand it. so thank you mark, we hope your words don't fall on deaf ears so to speak or should i say fall under blind minds. are you really evil?? me i would doubt it. len
G'day Len Sorry to learn that your grocery bill is on the up. I've stopped buying (and subsequently smoking) tobacco as of three-days prior to the New Year. I had no intention of stopping - although I had been giving it more thought of late - prior to contracting an especially virulent strain of gastroenteritis. The thought of smoking (let alone eating) whilst laying flat on my back on the edge of the desert for two days - all the while projectile vomiting and experiencing severe bouts of diarrhea - was far from my mind. I look forward to saving about $6 per week in tobacco costs. I may take it up again, in my old age, but only a product that I actually grow, as I once did in my youth. But, I digress... Nah, I'm not. Neither is 99% of the other scientists I work with. Granted, there will always be a few rotten apples. But by far the majority are simply dedicated to furthering the health and happiness of the human (and non-human) condition. Must go, Len. Take care, Markos
thanks mark, i didn't say the scientist as people are evil just they have an opportunity at present to further their personal goals, by promoting a theory that has no fact, and doing it with little thought to the health and well being of the masses who are at different levels of poor and needy. that is why i used as example the science that won't develop new antibiotics for ever increasing diseases that are ever resistant due to antibiotic use in the food chain, as their is not enough profit in it for the chem' co's they work for. we now have a science making eating food more expensive. oh! just in case we neither drink or smoke or eat high on the lamb, when it comes to meat we scrape through mostly with mince and sausages. for that we are thankful many don't have those minor material things and science is not helping in anyway. take care len
G'day Len While it may be true that some in the immensely broad field of 'science' are only working to further their own interests (whether they be financial, ego-driven, or otherwise), I remain convinced that by far the majority of scientists are working with the purest of altruistic intention. Scientists have always had a problem in communicating their wonderful, human (and non-human) life-enhancing advances in their fields of endeavour to the 'masses'. But, thankfully, things are changing. Bodies such of the Australian Academy of Science are continually trying to find new ways of reaching out to the 'masses' in an effort to demystify the scientific method. One excellent publication in this vein, is Nova: Nova’s goal is to provide accessible scientific information that will help to remove confusion surrounding complex science questions featured in the news. This publication is freely available in all local libraries. Furthermore, many of the articles that regularly feature in Nova are freely available at the Academy's website. If only more people would take the time to read accessible, fair, unbiassed and peer-reviewed literature (such as Nova), as opposed to the puerile trash and psuedo-science that the internet is awash with, maybe then 'science' (and by defualt, scientists) may not look so 'evil' after all? Cheerio, Mark
Yes you have Len, and you also have the right to be called out on it, when you sprout incoherent, illogical rubbish. We all have sympathy for you and your position. Your opinions/posts are always given a lot of leeway on these forums, as a result. However,I just wish you would restrict your posts to something you do know about, rather than incoherent "isn't it awful"/ "woe is me'' incoherent, paranoid ramblings
sad that some don't seem to respect the rights of others to have thoughts and opinions as the subject line indicates, those then criticise & judge and get overly defensive, why the need to be so defensive if what you believe in is so right and factual? sorry that you feel you need to get so agitated, might be some hidden doubts that you don't want manifested? anyway leave it with you for now. len
