My thoughts and opinions on Climate Change

Discussion in 'The big picture' started by Earth's Internet, Nov 8, 2012.

  1. mouseinthehouse

    mouseinthehouse Junior Member

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    Markos you posted as I did. :)

    Please, I have seen, smelt and touched first hand the poverty depicted in your first photo.
    We here are all wealthy in the bigger scheme of things, I don't think Len would dispute that.

    A new form of governance needed - indeed. But before that we need a new form of thinking about our place in the world and our relationship to the earth. Until enough numbers of people in the first world are prepared to seriously re-think the current way of life not a lot of progress can be made. I live in hope that I will see it in my life time. :)

    I should also say that I have seen (and continue to see) a great deal in the third world which does nothing for my confidence in the ability of humankind to make the radical change either.
     
  2. gardenlen

    gardenlen Group for banned users

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    photo's are often used to grab the emotions yes there are people and children suffering whether that photo depicts real time or not but many issues are caused by people being misplaced by their gov' we are fortunate as yet our gov' can't do the same.

    each issue needs to be dealt with on its merits, the cost of living due to carbon tax and other issues has nothing to do with whatever country those kids are in, and the pic of overweight kids does nothing for the whole premise. we are the fifth largest donor on the world stage yet our public health stinks, and families sleep in parks, tents and cars. if we went into abject poverty it would do not a thing to help those countries, they are the epitome of greed and stand over power.

    we all live in hope MITH but we can't circumvent greed and power, while we have worshipers of mythology science.

    len
     
  3. Grasshopper

    Grasshopper Senior Member

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    Last line is a bit rich coming from someone who worships mythology himself ay Len. :)

    I know quite a few old age pensioners MiL,SiL , Father ,Uncles and Aunties ,they all seem to be doing fine no complaints of carbon tax or cost of living from any of them.
    All are actually saying they couldn't spend all their money if they tried and have not noticed the carbon tax.
    So I get a little cynical when people come on internet forums and espouse their political views straight out of the Barnarby Joyce handbook while claiming an air of political naivety.
     
  4. Grahame

    Grahame Senior Member

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    My internet took so long to load I've forgotten what I was going to say.

    But I'll go with this...

    What do you really need electricity for anyway?

    and

    Petrol and Electricity are obviously still too cheap, because people are still using it and lining up at the bowsers. When either of them are truly too expensive people will get on with the job of finding alternatives or doing without...

    There you go cat - off after those pigeons :)
     
  5. mouseinthehouse

    mouseinthehouse Junior Member

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    I could think of any number of things that would cause death, pain and suffering without electricity and if that is what we are aiming for - going back to a time when death from many things occurred due to more 'primitive' conditions then that's okay if it is what the majority of people want. But I suspect that no matter what happens, that is not what anyone wants. Maybe I am wrong.
    I just read Mark Doyle's (Boyle) - sorry I don't have it right here -- book about his year living without money. I wonder what would have happened had the car which nearly hit him had done so and he needed life support? Or an ambulance to get to the hospital to utilise the life support? What level of simplified living are we willing to ultimately settle for?
     
  6. Grahame

    Grahame Senior Member

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    Yeah, but you don't need a life support system in your house, or an ambulance parked in every driveway do you?

    I mean, what do you really need it for in your home? If you lived in a well designed permaculture community would you really need your own vehicle?

    My point is, if enough people really couldn't afford electricity, wouldn't they start to do something about it? I mean really do something about it? I guess that is what they will have to do soon enough anyway.

    I totally understand that there are people out there who are struggling to make ends meet, and that the systems aren't in place yet to deal with that but that is a reality that is only going to get more prevalent in a low energy future. Many of us are already paying the price for over consumption of the past. But to find a way through it we are all going to have to get serious about not expecting such high-levels of 'creature comforts'. It is unsustainable, that is all there is too it.

    But there are sustainable solutions out there and we need to focus on that.

    Sorry, I have to go so I'll leave that unfinished for now..
     
  7. Unmutual

    Unmutual Junior Member

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    Electricity isn't a necessity by any stretch of the imagination. Electricity just makes things easier and some things possible(usually the things it makes possible aren't that good in the long run)

    I realize that this is a personal choice, but I don't want to be put on life support, ever. I may change my mind if I need something like dialysis, but we'll see(I'm not going to pretend that consciously staring death in the face won't have an affect). We had a discussion on these forums a while back about the 3rd ethic which went down the avenue of using resources to prolong life(ie: life support, etc.) and just how much resources were being used to do that sort of thing and if it really is in humanities best interest to do so. I think I finally realize just what that means and I think I'm moving to the other side of the argument. We already have enough people to take care of, can we afford to keep people alive that can't do so on their own? If/when the time comes that electricity is horrendously expensive, would we have the resources to keep people alive who require life support and are those resources being used ethically to do so?

    I guess it really does boil down to personal choice on most of these issues. You can either whine and complain about things, or you can do something to change it. Blaming everyone else for your misfortunes is counterproductive and it's usually your life choices that brought you to this point anyway, not some gang of rich people wanting every last dime you have. But it's always easier to blame others for your mistakes. Australia's carbon tax is an interesting look into the future of humanity. Eventually the entire world will have to pay, one way or another, for the use of oil. It's time to pay the piper, or have him run off with all of our children. I'd rather pay the piper.
     
  8. Unmutual

    Unmutual Junior Member

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    Let's try that again after some coffee....2nd ethic!
     
  9. Pakanohida

    Pakanohida Junior Member

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    Going back to climate change... here is something to watch in stunned horrific awe.

    [video]https://youtu.be/hC3VTgIPoGU[/video]
     
  10. Unmutual

    Unmutual Junior Member

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    youtu.be?
     
  11. Pakanohida

    Pakanohida Junior Member

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    Yes... ..having a problem with a valid link directly to YouTube?
     
  12. Pakanohida

    Pakanohida Junior Member

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    [video=youtube;hC3VTgIPoGU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=hC3VTgIPoGU[/video]

    :bow:
     
  13. Earth's Internet

    Earth's Internet Junior Member

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    Weather Modification by means of Ships out at sea spewing junk into the air. Image and Description provided by NASA

    (click to enlarge image)






    -
     

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  14. gardenlen

    gardenlen Group for banned users

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    like to say here,

    whilst they chase power stations which they have no valid system ready and running to take over that will also provide affordable power and allow for the re-habilitation of our forest habitat's, i have asked what about jets dumping pollution up to 60k foot in the air, like pointed out here all that shipping(on the increase, will need to as oz shuts its farms down). then cars, trains, buses, trucks, what do we do with it all?/ there is nothing affordable developed to replace them, they are moving our food growers further from us guaranteeing we need heavy transport.

    just doesn't make sense to chase power stations and industry suppliers of employment. anyway as i understand it we only contribute around 1.6% of the total CO2 in the atmosphere so be a bit like paying dearly to spit in the ocean hey?

    len
     
  15. Earth's Internet

    Earth's Internet Junior Member

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    The interesting thing about CO2s is that they are only a fraction of the issue. They are symptoms. They never truly seek to fix the cause of what they are against. The image I posted could be taken as mere Ship exhaust, but it has unique features of spirals and curls and further loops that don't make sense when considering these as shipping lanes. Still it is interesting. Weather Systems off northern California and Oregon have been geo-engineering with retrofitted bombers for the release of chemicals to capture more moisture to be dumped onto the Sierra Nevada Mountains. They are clearly water desperate in California. The problem is this junk they are releasing contaminates soils with aluminum among other elements. This hurts plant growth.

    I have seen Satellite weather photo images showing circular Jet Stream patterns well off San Francisco and if I can find them I'll post it here. These are not only abnormal weather patterns, but wouldn't match anything normal Jet flight patterns would do.
     
  16. gardenlen

    gardenlen Group for banned users

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    g'day EI,

    they exist on mythological confusion. extreme weather more to do with loss of habitat and degradation of the land, this premise does not seem to fit permaculture phylosophy anymore, yet they live for tree huggers in public.

    Co2 is about 22% of the total atmosphere, we generate a miserable 1.6% or so, china adds in 22% then the rest of asia, US and europe, sweden i think bought in a fuel levy not sure how much maybe 20% and by teh same theory benchmark reduced their CO2 input, but how is is manifested, locally and worldwide? they say since the tax our emissions have reduced where is eh manifestation, and if we cut all our 1.6% what manifestation will we see climate wise, can almost guarantee one manifestation will be homeless starving aussies. also guarantee many who support this theory of CC will be with the miserable poor and bet they will be protesting the loudest.

    one forum i respond in says the earth is going to hell, but like here no one wants to try in real time to ry and fix it, just go down the gurgler screaming and yelling divided as we are.

    len
     
  17. Grahame

    Grahame Senior Member

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    Seriously Len! Where are you getting your information from. How do you come to these bizarre conclusions? What makes you think that permaculture no longer cares about degradation of the land and loss of habitat? I'm mean come on! These sweeping generalisations do everyone a disservice. Please, just think about what you are going to say before you go off half-cocked
     
  18. ecodharmamark

    ecodharmamark Junior Member

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    I bet that's a fun place to hang out...

    Seriously, carbon sequestration through reforestation is over-rated, as Oren et al (2001) found:

    ...evidence that estimates of increases in carbon sequestration of forests, which is expected to partially compensate for increasing CO2 in the atmosphere, are unduly optimistic.

    Yes, by all means, stop the destruction of woody biomass. And yes, by all means, increase the amount of woody biomass on the planet. Support your local/bioregional Landcare group. But don't expect this alone to rebalance the carbon equation.

    The simple fact of the matter is, in order to redress the balance and stave off the worst effects of climate change that are to come, we need to decarbonise our global economy.

    Australia could become a global leader in this regard, we have the minds and the resources to lead the way. Or, we can continue to put our trust in a system of governance that is flawed by design, i.e. the status quo must prevail. We already have the plan and ability to go 'beyond zero', but as yet we lack the political will to implement it.

    We do not have an environmental problem, we have a socio-political problem. Fix the socio-political problem, and the environmental problem will take care of itself. Stop cowering in dark corners full of superstition and ignorance. Stand up, find others, and together we can lead the way.
     
  19. gardenlen

    gardenlen Group for banned users

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    they think and believe what most here do.

    your story doesn't alter and the climate won't alter even without carbon in it. i keep asking for valid proof and i get hypothetical theory.

    take care

    we'll probably starve to death out in the streets before carbon less changes the climate.

    doesn't look like about about to find others who want to do the cause and effect thingy right, it's the science in dark corners the faceless ones and the nameless ones who are hiding not me i'm out here getting lambaked.

    len
     
  20. ecodharmamark

    ecodharmamark Junior Member

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    Len, you have been presented with the evidence multiple times. Trust me, I don't take any delight in 'lambasting' you, or anyone else regarding this matter. All I merely wish to do is point out the rational, credible, (peer-reviewed) scientific position regarding the matter. Cheerio, Mark.
     

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