Discussion in 'The big picture' started by Earth's Internet, Nov 8, 2012.
I find nothing but insults & glittering generalities in this post. /ignored :bow:
Time to post this link again, I think: Toby Hemenway - How Permaculture Can Save Humanity and the Earth, but Not Civilization https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nLKHYHmPbo There are distinct differences between human cultures. Some are less harmful than others, and we can learn from them.
Permiculture has some wonder concepts Ludi, but I think the thing that will help mankind more is when certain native indigenous peoples like Australian Aboriginals, Native Americans, Africans and others are treated like equal human beings of worth and value, not some rare species of animal in need of restoration back into it's habitat or ecosystem. Green Innovations and Eco-solutions aren't going to bring unity mankind if the same degenerate attitudes cloaked as Science persist like the plague.
I did however enjoy your links. Thanks
I would have thought the problem was if the same degenerate attitudes cloaked as religion* persist like the plague.
Very Good Point and I agree. I'm amazed at many of the things done in religion's name. Your country's film documentary "Rabbit Proof Fence" drove that one home to me.
Last year the Dutch Reformed Church here in Europe apologized for their major role in Apartheid, I believe the Anglican Church has done likewise.
I'm revisiting this post Ludi because I recently reported on some of the findings here in Sweden from researchers on Biodiversity and the benefits of mutual cooperation with which plants and other organisms express when the environment is functioning on it's own and without interference from mankind. Pity humans couldn't actually take a lesson from this. Unfortunately given the sad state of health of our planet as a result of this obsession with ideological dogma pimping as opposed to doing real science, the downward spiral is understandable. But every so often you stumble across research which is just out side the conventional box of Orthodoxy and things start to make sense again.
Survival of the Mutually Cooperative
-- Enjoy and if you've got any similar studies as these two, please share them here, Thanks in advance.
Keep it nice people.
Personal abuse will NOT be tolerated
This is some further interesting info that has come out this week on weather effects of moisture influences from hundreds of miles away. It seems applicable to other areas of the planet, but has been of unique interest to my coming from the southwest and discovering things most people have never considered. Anyway apparently water irrigation in California's Central Valley has influence of higher rainfall amounts over the Four Corners states and as far away as Wyoming and Nebraska. But it also got me to think again on something that has puzzled me and that is the Salton Sea.
What exactly is the weather phenomenon known as the "lake effect"?
Here is a collection of dozens of scientific studies that refute global warming or climate change as being man-made. These don't make it into the mainstream news.
These articles go into some detail about how deforestation affects the weather, which rarely enters the equation when climate change is discussed. And if it is mentioned there are no real, concrete plans implemented to solve the problem.
Of course, weather control isn't discussed at all in the mainstream media in relation to climate change, even though the U.S., Russia, China, and several other countries have been experimenting for decades.
This is an excerpt from G. Edward Griffin's book, The Creature from Jekyll Island. It explains in detail what the hidden agenda of environmentalism is all about.
the removal of indonesian and and malaysian forest effects our rain seasons here this year the monsoonal trough the worst it has been, 1 lousy cyclone for an area that used to get 4 to 6 per season. cyclones are what fill our aquafas, without them we are high and dry. even over teh west i think they have had only 3 or so most went straight out into the indian ocean. used to be said in the pre-raped environment times "if darwin got its rain qld got theirs"
roy you won't get much here mate, the trend seems to be mythology driven by science and blame the poor for the rape of the planet. will look at your links later.
The environment is in collapse. I can see that when I go down to the creek and watch the stuff flowing down it where water used to flow. Or when I drive past sterile sun-baked farmland where trees once grew
There is no hidden agenda in me wanting the water to be nice and clean or in wanting the cooling rain-bringing trees from covering the land.
I don't blame the poor, It's the apathetic and the greedy and fools like Roy who spout this shit who need to take some responsibility. Sometimes they just happen to be 'poor'
People in power abusing a situation is not the same as there being an across the board 'hidden agenda'. Most people who care about the environment really care about the environment. This sort of stuff is designed just to enflame and to do exactly the opposite of what it pretends to do. It perpetuates the myth of conspiracies which makes people believe in conspiracies more - which plays directly into the hands of the people who do want to make us believe the is nothing wrong with the environment.
What is your hidden agenda Roy?
Grahame, if you had read my posts you would know that I agree that there are real environmental problems. I never said there weren't, not once. If you'd actually read the article in the link above you would find quotes from people in positions of power indicating that they believed the environmental angle would work well in justifying their agenda of global control because there really are environmental problems, so people would more readily accept their plan than they would if the threat wasn't credible. The threat had to be credible to sufficiently frighten people, but didn't have to be accurate or entirely truthful.
As I have already mentioned in this forum, some environmental problems are totally ignored (genetically modified organisms, chemical fertilizers, pesticides and herbicides, pharmaceuticals, and chemicals in general, etc.) while others are blown out of proportion or fabricated. All of the solutions proposed by the governments or the United Nations give them greater power over virtually everything, including the availability of food, energy, medicine, and so on. These elites deliberately cause the problems, make a lot of noise in the media about them to gain public support, and then propose the solutions which, just coincidentally, result in them acquiring more and more power. If you are unable to see that something is very wrong with this picture, then I would say that you don't want to see it. It's pure denial.
I read the article.
As I've said before, there is no point going over the same old ground bashing big business/government/united nations etc and crapping on about conspiracies.
It is up to us to DO SOMETHING about correcting the wrongs we have made in the past (many largely innocently). My parents and grandparents didn't set out to crap all over the world - they didn't know. WE do!
None of those things you listed (the availability of food, energy, medicine, and so on) are 'being totally ignored', people who care have been discussing them for years! But, blaming all those 'conspirators' is a denial of what is YOUR responsibility. Solutions have never come from governments and it's insanity to continue to look to them to provide them. It is up to you.
I'm here, having a crack at living an alternative to the prevailing ignorance. Are you?
The mythology Roy is embracing is a libertarian fantasy with lower taxes for the rich and no health care or safety nets for the poor and a lot less government interference in the beloved capitalist system that got us in this mess.
As previously noted "The Report From Iron Mountain" you use to support your point of view is a fabrication put out to show how naive people can be - "The document is a favorite among conspiracy theorists, who seem unaware that in 1972 the satirist Leonard Lewin admitted the book was a spoof and that he was its author." (Wikipedia - Report From Iron Mountain
I wish you would stop and think before you put out these ideas because you have shown yourself time and time again to not be well versed in research. You ask everyone who has a different point of view to yours to prove you are wrong, yet you obviously never read the references provided or you choose to ignore them.
Roll your sleeves up, get out and DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT instead of throwing out baseless theories of blame that provide no way to help people empower themselves to improve the situation we live in now.
So someone claims The Report from Iron Mountain was a spoof, and somehow that magically makes it so? If it was not a spoof do you think its authors would actually admit it? And you call me naive? Even if it was a spoof it has been remarkably accurate. Doesn't that seem a bit strange. I find it strange that a few people claimed to have written it. That would be a good way to downplay it and make it seem like a joke, wouldn't it? There is a lot more to go on then just that report as well. If you read that article as you claim you would know that, and there is A LOT more info in Griffin's book to back up what I've written here than just that chapter.
The capitalist system was in no way responsible for the financial problems of the world. Capitalism can not function when a fiat currency is issued by a central bank. You would understand that thoroughly if you read The Creature from Jekyll Island. It's socialism that caused the problems, whether you call it that or fascism, communism, etc. It's all the same for the most part.
I am doing something about it. For one, I'm introducing some people on this forum to the real story of what's going on, and I'm sure some of them are seeing the truth of what I've written, though I highly recommend doing a lot of reading on www.freedomforceinternational.org because Griffin is one of the most knowledgeable people on this subject, much more so than I.
Building a garden, helping your neighbour or people less fortunate than yourself is doing something about 'it'. Putting forward non-intelligent, fear based conspiracy theories isn't.
Rewarding greed,the need for perpetual growth,rampant consumerism,aspirational carrot chasers,over population,resource depletion.globalisation,the exporting of slave labour and pollution to China and other third world nations with lax labour and environmental laws to make more profit,duplication of infrastructure due to private ownership ponzi schemes all sound like the by products of capitalism to me.
There arent too many Communists/socialist merchant bankers in the world plenty would be libertarians though.
Separate names with a comma.