Monsanto attacks Permaculture & Organics

Monsanto steps up its campaign for acceptance of GM

Monday, 30/08/2010
Global biotechnology company Monsanto has begun an education and advocacy campaign to change the opposition many Australia consumers have to genetically modified food.
Speaking at the NSW Farmwriters Forum in Sydney, Monsanto's head in Australia, Peter O'Keefe, argued that organic and permaculture production was "not viable" on a large scale, and Australia was falling behind other countries in productivity improvements because of the reluctance to embrace GM technology.


He said something had to be done to turn around the poor global performance of wheat against other crops, which he said was caused partly by public opposition to GM crops and "crippling" government policies in Australia.
Monsanto has just reached agreement with Grains Research and Development Council to own 20 per cent of the WA research company Intergrain, a move that the GRDC and Monsanto say will produce a "revolution" in the grains industry.
The agreement gives Monsanto access to a large number of Australian varieties, while Integrain has access to Monsanto's research technology.
https://www.abc.net.au/rural/news/content/201008/s2996789.htm

 

Pish Tosh as my mother would say....

 

Just to play devils advocate,can someone please show me on a large scale where Permaculture and Organics is working,in the wheat industry.
When I say large scale lets look at Glenvar,now they use low till,but thats about as close to a permaculture practice they get.
Here is an interesting article about Australias Organic wheat farmers.
https://www.csu.edu.au/faculty/scie...FBMJournal_v03_n02_01_ToddBirzer&WWarwick.pdf
You will notice that they have a number of problems and that the average size of the farm is quite small.
I would also say that Organics on massive/large scale is also difficult and in doing so I would be defending Monsanto and I am.
Now I am not defending Monsanto or the style of agriculture they promote just the statement,they made.
I would prefer that we all controlled our own food sources and ate nutrient dense easy to grow low maintenance crops as staples,I think the future of all farms is small and diverse and thats when permaculture becomes very abundant and performs very well when edges have synergies and diversity creates stability.So once again thanks to Monsanto for pointing this out,broad scale organics and permaculture are not going to feed the world .You are all going to have to feed yourselfs.
Best wishes Fernando

 

No, Permaculture will not feed the world in traditional Agricultural terms... BUT I strongly believe it WILL feed communities with a simple slight restructuring of the economic system.

 

It's true that sustainable and large scale do not go together. I hate Monsanto and all it stands for, but it's true that we cannot compete at large scale. But the point is that, for a host of reasons (peak oil, soil depletion and erosion, water wastage, soil/water contamination, nutrient deficient food - even carcenogenic food due to soluble fertilisers - insect imbalances, 'weed' imbalances, etc., we have no choice but to shift to small scale systems. One person can observe and take care of an acre of land with a little knowledge. One man cannot observe and take care of a 500 acres from the seat of his tractor.

The longer we prolong the large scale paradigm, the harder it will be to transition to where we need to go - small scale fossil fuel- and chemical-free systems that build soil and hold and filter water. Monsanto's bid to continue with business as usual translates to our being forced to shift to small scale when there's nothing left but dry, dead dust left to work with.

Today we run on the model of exhaust and 'set aside'. Then farming must intensify on the remaining lands - hastening their destruction.

No, we can't farm large scale. Get used to it, and transition away from it.

The horrible reality is that in our present system is that the profits for BigAgri on selling a resource in decline (supply/demand) are increasing. The more vulnerable our situation, the more money they stand to make. Well, at least for the moment. They will cross a threshold where it'll all come unglued.

Re-ruralisation must occur, and soon. Monsanto and the like will only delay this, and make it even harder to action when we finally realise this inevitability.

Ultimately we'll start farming our city parks and sidewalks. We won't have a choice.

 

I can show you where permaculture is working ... but it's not in the wheat industry honey.
Be patient with me here ... & yes I know I wasn't listening in class a lot ... but isn't large scale permaculture/organics an oxymoron?

The reason I bought this place I live on now is to make it an ark & a lifeboat ... so my children/grandchildren & anyone else I can fit will be able to eat WTSHTF.

The word compete is going to have to disappear from use. If we can't get our heads around cooperate we are all effed. And I, for one, really intensely dislike being hungry.

Call Monsanto & large scale what they really are - peddlers of disease & death. The Green Revolution has caused poverty & starvation in the third world when indigenous people abandoned their sustainable, small scale lives to embrace the new wonder technology ... that failed them. Again.
So what you're really saying is small scale doesn't work for capitalism & the West? Boo Hoo.

The thing that most inspired me when I did my PC course was the realization that teaching/implementing this stuff really could empower people & change lives. I have a background of working in nursing/youth work/juvenile justice ... & was very disillusioned with the limits of my ability to empower. PC empowers individuals.

You have watched "Cuba - Beyond Peak Oil & Economic Collapse"? haven't you?

 

Thanks for the reply,are you directing those statements at me?I think if you read my statements again, I am very clear.
That large scale Permaculture and Organics don't work.The example you use"Cuba" is fairly defunct as it consist almost entirely of very small farms and Urban Agriculture.Rather than just a few big organic farms.
If you are talking about the result that occurred in Cuba(with the power of community,as an example.) again,you might,like to consider that as soon as the economy recovered the program saw a drastic reduction in yields and outputs as the community went back to support the newly emerging economy. The film was about feeling good and is a nice piece of inspirational propaganda,until permaculture and organic practice can compete in the open marked place delivering the quality of life people around the world aspire too then it will always be put in the too hard basket.
As far as being a subsistence farmer with a small parcel of land and being able to produce from that,I think that it takes a tremendous amount of skill and expertise handed down from generation to generation at tremendous personal cost especially in the "developing world" and in the "developed" economies we are so completely disconnected from this information about subsistence farming ,that we need to attend specialized institutes that have created a science that deals with this.Fortunately the thing that does motivate a community is selfishness and self need they are both good traits,and amazing forces,used constructively.
Best Wishes Fernando

 

That's how Monsanto (and big Agribusiness in general) maintain the status quo. Tell a truth. Give a broadacre wheat farm to a permaculture tribe and ask them to match the yield. Ok can't be done. Therefore by extension everything that Monsanto have to offer after that revelation MUST also be the incontrovertible truth. But it doesn't mean that GMO wheat is going to be the salvation of the world. Eventually the system must collapse. You can't keep stripping the soil of nutrients, adding salt, irrigating from water that isn't there, spraying to kill the pests, adding genes to make the plant resistant to the spray so you can use more, harvest it and toss it into a big truck fuelled by petrol to drive it to a big shiny shop forever.

(Stomps off into corner to sulk.....)

 

are you directing those statements at me?
No, not you, at the Devils Advocate

as soon as the economy recovered the program saw a drastic reduction in yields and outputs as the community went back to support the newly emerging economy.
I don't think PC has ever claimed it can cure laziness & stupidity. In fact, my personal belief is that humans are hard wired for laziness & acquisitiveness (& possibly stupidity ... or at least being short sighted ).

until permaculture and organic practice can compete in the open marked place delivering the quality of life people around the world aspire too then it will always be put in the too hard basket.
Nothing can deliver the quality of life the Western World aspires to. Nothing.

expertise handed down from generation to generation at tremendous personal cost
Everything costs. Everything. There truly are no free lunches. It's a just a matter of choosing what one is willing sacrifice & what one hopes to gain ... or ... "choose your poison".

Fortunately the thing that does motivate a community is selfishness and self need
Especially hunger & cold. It's amazing how motivated the most slothful person will get when they're cold & hungry. Sadly, for many, by the time this situation occurs it will be too late to act to achieve a desirable outcome.

And my best wishes to you also Fernando

 

If we can reduce our reliance on grains, as proposed by Bill in the eighties, then we will not need to compete with large scale and if we diversify cropping land we can easily outproduce them in total output but not in tonnes of wheat per acre. Wer think in a different way to agribusines and to compare apples to chalk is a bit silly but if we were to get the suport that agriculture gets world wide and access to land them calorific (is that a word) or total energy from a properly managed permaculture enterprise would I feel sure bring huge gains on a monocultural system.
Large scale will occure when many join to become an organism of food production.

 

Hi Fernando ... ooppps ... for some reason when I came to this thread I came in at your first post, which I thought was the original topic ... not sure how or why, except that I'm a bit dodgy on the computer. I thought I should explain why I was addressing everything to you & not to the original post. I'm sorry if I got up your nose or anything.
If I had read the original post & was responding to that ... I'd say what CraigMackintosh said
I'll try not to be so useless in the future ...

 

My guess is that these companies are so powerful and are so adept at playing on peoples fears that many who read their comments will take it as truth, whatever the truth may actually be. And more damagingly, people will extrapolate that to believe that permaculture and organics are pretenders in all respects. So my question is....

What are we going to do about it? This to me is the only question we really need to address here in this forum (as I assume most people here are on board with the idea that something must be done). What can we as a group and as individuals DO to counteract the press Monsanto and others get? I feel like we almost need a 'party line' on this, something that any of us can use in any situation where we have the opportunity to reverse peoples thinking and challenge their belief in what these big companies tell them. Some standard responses that clearly show the big picture.

Who's up for the challenge?

Grahame

 

Without a doubt we can not compete on their level. I think we need only to do our individual best and try to influence people to get their PDC under their belt as we will reach a tipping point sooner with more people focusing on permaculture. If we strive to get just 18pc of the population talking about Pc we will make a difference. Falling on their own sword remains a possibility while ever the obvious fact remains that a morally corrupt notion can not ultimatly succeed. We need caution in addressing our concerns in a similar way as the big powers.
and cross your fingers too - just in case!!!

 

I think they are running scared. They realise that they are in decline and will use all their dirty tricks to continue to fool some of the people all of the time.This is the first time they have mentioned Permaculture in public that I know of.
Monsanto has a lot to be scared of.

 

Scared?

What on earth could possibly have them running scared? :think:

https://www.google.com/custom?hl=en...G=Search&cx=005882427699693072259:-ubk9xtrqgq

 

By the way, if any of you guys wants to write up a post on this latest Monsanto statement, please do - and send to me on craig (at) permaculture.org.au

I'd do it, but at the moment I'm busy working on a new people/projects database-slash-social-networking system we'll be announcing and releasing in beta form in upcoming weeks.

 

I agree with most of what's been said so far, but I'm not sure I agree that permaculture can't be used large scale theoretically (say, if cheap oil wasn't about to run out). Isn't this what Geoff is doing in Jordan in this project?

https://permaculture.org.au/2010/08...ns-largest-farm-and-contemplating-transition/

That's 2000 hectares. Not sure if that counts as large in Monsanto terms. And maybe it's premature to use it as an example until the results can be seen ;-) But is there any reason why this can't work?

 

Hi Pebble,

When i first heard of permaculture i thought it meant keeping chickens in a domestic backyard. To think on a bigger scale was not something that entered my mind. It wasn't until i started delving into the concepts of it that i began to think this could work on acres of property.

Convincing a traditional farmer on 200 hectares that they could convert their property to permaculture is likely to fall on deaf ears, but if we demonstrate the small concepts, the idea of broad acre expansion becomes more of a reality...

For me, the key is to get people permaculturing... then start to think bigger.

 

Just a heads up on this Pebble,

I considered how the Permaculture ideal is small scale, family managed, biodiverse land holdings – not big farms like this. And I thought about, as I often do, the need to move society towards such an ideal, to get more people onto the land. I thought about land redistribution and the corresponding need to educate those people in sustainable, permaculture systems.(Geoff Lawton in the story)

I knew that the work that needs to be done will never happen in time.
Thus finding methods to transition large systems like this is not only essential to maintaining some order, and, ultimately, peace, but it can also serve as an excellent opportunity to get permaculture concepts onto board room tables, onto fields, and into the minds of farm managers and labourers.
Geoff was given five initial hectares to design. It will be a pioneer section prior to subsequent, larger transitions on the farm. During the consultation process, I have to say I was impressed with Geoff’s boldness. Rather than compromise and water down permaculture principles through an assumption these agribusinessmen would go at it only half-heartedly, Geoff expected much, and got it.
(edited to suit my personal opinion of course;>)
Sure the farm is in transition,25% underway.
The micro will be the macro and that is the only way for the future.Act locally in your watersheds your communities and your friends and families.What transition is going to take is a grass roots attack,with big business which has kept us spoiled westerners healthy and comfortable for many years to meet the grass roots in the middle.Sick of people bashing big business while still enjoying the many fruits of it.We are all stuck in a paradox.So when we harp on the critical rather than looking for the positive we weigh ourselves down with baggage.Personally if Monsanto was willing to give me money to instigate a permaculture project I would take the money,I would focus on the positive.
Just an opinion and we all know what opinions are like.:>)
Best Wishes Fernando.

 

I didn't read the link in the first post, but I take the statement about permaculture not being viable on a large scale to mean that Monstanto can't make lots of money out of it ;-) Which is a different thing than viability on a large scale being able to feed people without making a killing.

I took that project of Geoff's to mean that he believes large scale Pc is viable. I'll take his expertise over the Monstanto guy any day of the week.

Hard to say unless I was in the situation, but I can't imagine any circumstances which would prompt me to take money from Monsanto. They've done too many evil things and the company deserves to die. But you just might be able to pull it off

I hear what you are saying though, and it's a real dilemma - how to address the powers that are doing the most damage. While I agree with you about the need for proactive and positive approaches I doubt that we have time to get something like Monsanto on board. So it may be a better strategy to throw the shit at them, clog the works up a bit, so other initiatives can get momentum.