Mollison's third world endless nitrogen fertilizer supply

Discussion in 'Designing, building, making and powering your life' started by nate_taylor, Jul 17, 2009.

  1. nate_taylor

    nate_taylor Junior Member

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    Has anybody tried this? The science looks sound. Titanium dioxide is not a health risk. I am going to set up an experiment later this summer, using charcoal and chalk instead of sand. My theory is that solar heat and higher Ph would make the ammonia toxic to algae but fine for N oxidizing bacteria in the layers below, then a drip could be run continuously.

    download and see more, page 91:
    https://www.natetaylor.net/permaculture/pdc_all.pdf

    download and see page 91:

    https://www.natetaylor.net/permaculture/pdc_all.pdf
     
  2. SueinWA

    SueinWA Junior Member

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    Re: Mollison's third world endless nitrogen fertilizer supply

    Isn't this plain old Mr. Chemical Farmer's favorite, ammonium nitrate, or am I mistaken?
     
  3. sweetpea

    sweetpea Junior Member

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    Re: Mollison's third world endless nitrogen fertilizer supply

    Synthetic nitrogen which non-organic farming uses, is ammonium nitrate, which isn't found in nature.

    The air we breathe is 78 percent nitrogen, free for the taking. But since nitrogen is a gas, it needs to become a compound so we can transport it. Ammonia is a natural substance, we pee it out, and it is partly nitrogen. That's what this system is harvesting, the nitrogen in the air, chemically clinging it (making it a compound) to oxygen in a specific proportion so it will stay in the water.

    Clover and vetches also pull nitrogen from the air and fix it in their roots, and it's probably a lot less work :)
     
  4. nate_taylor

    nate_taylor Junior Member

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    Re: Mollison's third world endless nitrogen fertilizer supply

    Exactly, it's like a box of piss sitting in the sun, and you wash it out into the garden every now and then. Or it could serve as part of the base of a compost tea. You could stir it up and wait for the sand and titanium to settle out. Free ammonia, urea and bacterial biomass. Pour this effluent onto some lignins (newsprint, coir, sawdust, chips, twigs etc) and fungi have you on your way to humus.
    (guessing here, based on high school chemistry:)

    UV + 6(H2O) + 2(N2) + TiO2 = > TiO2 + 4(NH3) + 3(O2)
    Then:
    UV + 02 + Nh3 + TiO2 => (NO3-)/(NO2-) + H2O + TiO2 (guessing here too)


    https://www.springerlink.com/content/ktl3681033tg8831/

    Photocatalytic oxidation of aqueous ammonia (ammonium ion) to nitrite or nitrate at TiO2 particles

    The photocatalytic oxidation of ammonia (ammonium ion) in the presence of air or pure oxygen at titanium(IV) oxide powder surfaces and induced by UV light was investigated. Experimental conditions were varied and the effect ofpH, sparging gas, as well as the concentration of both ammonia (ammonium ion) and photocatalyst were investigated. It has been established that the principal product of photocatalytic oxidation depends onpH, and is either nitrite or nitrate. A gas-diffusion flow injection analysis system with conductivity detection was used for on-line monitoring of ammonia concentration. In addition, ion-chromatography with UV detection was utilized for offline monitoring of nitrite and nitrate concentrations. The use of a photocatalyst such as TiO2 may prove to be a viable method for conversion of ammonia (ammonium ion) to either nitrite or nitrate.
     
  5. kimbo.parker

    kimbo.parker Junior Member

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    Re: Mollison's third world endless nitrogen fertilizer supply

    Nate,

    If it is just like a box of piss sitting in the sun, why not just have a container of piss sitting in the sun? :D you might be able to use the container of piss in a more 'mulitfunctional' way as well.

    the monster in the diagram was quite 'ugly' up against the eloquence of a legume. And it had just the one function, Nitrogen for irrigated crops?
    seems a bit limited...why go to the trouble?
    'just like a container of piss', indeed.

    Attention this forum; I gave Nate _Taylor details of one of my inventions; basically a container of piss in the sun.
    Now Nate presents this catalyctic monster as the alternative ...Nate you're up to something.

    regards, Kimbo
     
  6. nate_taylor

    nate_taylor Junior Member

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    Re: Mollison's third world endless nitrogen fertilizer supply

    Hey it was Mollison's idea, you can read it yourself. He just said he never had time to try it out and I was wondering if anyone else ever did. I have some titanium pigment that I use to make paint, and I'm moving out to the desert soon, so I'll be giving it a try.

    Some of my friends operate a cattle ranch on 3500 acres of Arizona high desert. They need to find a way to reduce the impact of the cows up there, and it's difficult getting around. There's an area up the mountain where the cows like to hang out, where humans don't go very often, and we were talking about getting grassland established so there'd be reduced impact on the surrounding habitat. I was fantasizing about a solar panel that would collect nitrogen from the sun and release it as the monsoons are dying down, when everything is about to explode with life. Then we'd never have to go up there except to marvel at how freakin awesome we are.
     

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