Minority Rules: Scientists Discover Tipping Point for the Spread of Ideas

Discussion in 'The big picture' started by 9anda1f, Jan 9, 2013.

  1. 9anda1f

    9anda1f Administrator Staff Member

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    OK, let's get our unshakable Permaculturist numbers up to 10%!!

    https://news.rpi.edu/update.do?artcenterkey=2902
     
  2. Tezza

    Tezza Junior Member

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    Id like to think that we allready have a 10% level or higher..... Its happening more every day...... Thats why they trying everything they can, to sell off the "australian assets".... any buissness thats not even running yet. ie whitehaven to loose over $300,000,000 in an afternoon... THATS not anyones fault except the greedy wankers who deserted the sinking ship on a rumour..... why should we care? I certainly DONT....

    The FACT they got all the money back pretty quickly,goes to show How easy it is to make or loose "ALLMOST HALF A BILLION BUCKS" easy come easy go8)8):clap::clap:

    Sounds a lot dodgy with an EX depty crime minister is in charge of proceedings...

    :punch::punch::punch::punch::punch::punch::mad:::mad:::mad:::mad:::mad:::mad:::mad:::mad:::mad:::mad::

    Tezza

    Fuck the lot of em, most of em wont even be alive or in power by time the "Shit Hits The Fan"
     
  3. Grahame

    Grahame Senior Member

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    Nice one Tezza :clap:

    As for the 10%, that would be 2.2 million or so Aussies. That's a lot of Aussies.

    It would be 30 folks from my local town! I hope I'm not selling my little town short, but I won't be holding my breath, but I may stock up on blankets for the freezing over of Hell. On the flip side I am almost certain that more than 10% of them think climate change is a fairy-tail.

    What happens to that 10% critical mass when there is a 12% mob out there believing in the complete opposite? I think computer models can have serious weaknesses.
     
  4. Tezza

    Tezza Junior Member

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    =(=(=(=(=(=(=(=(=(=(=(=(=(=(=(=(=(=(=(=(=(=(=(=(=(=(=(=(=(=(=(=(=(=(=(=(=(=(=( Hi Grahame... What else can I say.... ARE you saying that 1 in 10... ooops SORRY 1 in ten people are a total waste of space for not knowing the difference between RIGHT and WRONG?

    scarey numbers indeed

    Tezza
     
  5. Dzionik

    Dzionik Junior Member

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    Sorry but we are living in 'custom google bubble'.
    Create a simple test, use your browser for search "sustainable permaculture" or something similar and save the results. Then delete cookies and close the browser. Install a second and different "virgin" browser and search again. Be fast because Google bots will quickly find you. Compare the results.
     
  6. gardenlen

    gardenlen Group for banned users

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    might make it easier for some to handle?

    if 10% of the worlds population, then maybe then permaculture would become better known and maybe attain some relevancy, in looking after the planet better and taking away from the rich and power lords with their corrupt pollies. there are religions that can attain influence over nations they migrate to but most of that occurs where the ethics of our past are long forgotten.

    we don't have an enviable name in the inhumane way we deal with immigrants as a whole. so that will continue through other doctrines that get forced onto australians in the same/similar boat to the immigrants(no pun meant)

    the best thing permaculture might do is forget its religious relevance and be seen to be out there showing what is happening especially in our food chain and all living costs.

    len
     
  7. ecodharmamark

    ecodharmamark Junior Member

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    G'day Len

    Thanks for the opportunity to respond to your recent comments:

    What does this mean? Are you referring to the historical? Such as the invading and predominantly Christian-based, European-colonial ideology that smashed the local cultures of the various First Nation states that existed in whole regions of Asia, Africa, Australia, North and South America and beginning around the end of the C15 and extending (in some cases) right through to the C20? Or are you suggesting that this is a more recent phenomenon, and if so what are these 'long forgotten' ethics?

    'We' are an immigrant nation. When 'we' first landed, we represented around 0.1% of the population. Yet we were able to decimate around 90% of our 'host' population within the first 50-years of our occupation. We did this, firstly through the transference of disease, before then moving on to hanging, shooting and poisoning, and finally through the act of driving whole clans (several families) off the edge of cliffs. 'Our' attitude of indifference to people seeking asylum in our country today, has its roots in our (continued) indifference to the people who attempted to accommodate us some 230-odd years ago. White Australia has a very black history.

    If people find 'relevance' in permaculture through 'religion' what does this matter? Permaculture is not just some sort of 'how to guide to organic gardening'. Permaculture is a framework that people can build whole-of-life philosophies upon. Naturally, people are going to want to bring along their embodied religions - if they still carry them. Of course, I agree, there is no room for the teaching of the unscientific in a PDC. However, this does not mean that in delivering the PDC - indeed, in practicing permaculture as a whole - that we do not pay our respects to all the world's great religions. Personally, I think we do a pretty good job in this regard.

    Cheerio, Markos
     
  8. gardenlen

    gardenlen Group for banned users

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    sorry mark your response all looks like so much waffle you've turned my context around, those christian marauders you speak of have nothing to do with ethics of God's people (the term christian or christianity is a broadly used term which which just confounds as much as that apostasy that emerged around the 7th century) apart from dominate and plunder, but you won't want to know that the ethics we live by are in hard copy from 6k years and still going now nearly 2k after the change from BC to AD. now you are allowed to believe what you want. so obviously you wanted to appear grandiose and shoot me down, but it has failed unless there are people here who have a good grounding in the history.

    you don't convince me of your wisdom or lack of, 200 years or so ago we may have been immigrants some through and enforced penal system, others like my families were lied to by the gov' and enticed to come here.so really as i said nothing unkind about the current immigration flow you tried and failed to sully that, we will have a less than ideal reputation how we treat these people, they like us poor in aus, are like pawns for the manipulators maybe you are one?

    you went for the jugular sorry mark you missed it knowledge is wonderful.

    len

    len
     
  9. ecodharmamark

    ecodharmamark Junior Member

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    G'day Len

    ...and ignorance is bliss

    Rather than trying to 'manipulate' you, all I am trying to do is better understand you. I realise that by answering your questions, or by responding to your comments in general, it might seem that - because of the vastly opposing world views we hold - I am intentionally trying to 'shoot you down'. However, nothing could be further from the truth. I have learnt a great deal from conversing with you during the past 8-plus years. All I can hope is that - even if it is in some small way - I have been able to return the favour.

    Take the topic of this thread for example: You have prompted me to try and better understand the world view of people for whom the Decalogue may act as a moral compass. I had not given the Decalogue much thought since I was asked to leave Sunday School at the age of four. As such, it is most interesting to revisit it today from the perspective of a socio-ecological scholar. However, and as interesting as it may be, it does not detract from the position I support in that morals and ethics - while certainly related - really are two completely different concepts.

    Cheerio, Markos
     
  10. gardenlen

    gardenlen Group for banned users

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    maybe your ignorance is bliss mark?

    we follow good ethics so we can't even think we a ignorant. we leave that to others to show their lack of!

    you cam gunning as you said above, that is not concilaratory at all that is aggression, i think similar runs in different parts of the world where intolerance rules supreme the middle east afghanistan and pakistan up near the top of the list, actually like the irish thing different forms, of the same belief locking horns, no peace without tolerance.

    i showed my tolerance of and compassion for what people are going through to leave their countries where intolerance abides, and you cake holed it.

    anyhow for the last and people in different worships might understand we follow a 6K old set of ethics if we go against that we go against GOD.

    there you go againe mixing up teh topic for confusions sake two completely different concepts.

    this one has nothing to do with worship of GOD and in your haste you posted the link three times, under different titles.

    is being asked to leave a sunday school all your evidence for intolerance and bias?

    len
     
  11. mouseinthehouse

    mouseinthehouse Junior Member

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    Markos,
    give it up - or are you a masochist at heart? :p

    Sometimes in this world there are people who breathe the same air and that is about all they have in common. Oh, and in interest in permaculture LOL :rofl:
     
  12. Michaelangelica

    Michaelangelica Junior Member

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  13. ecodharmamark

    ecodharmamark Junior Member

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    G'day Len

    You follow one particular doctrine. As to whether it is 'good' or not is very much debatable. Of course you do not 'think' you are ignorant; for if you thought otherwise, you would not be. I am the first to admit that I am hugely ignorant of a great many things - mostly other cultures. But it is for this very reason that I actively seek opportunities to learn more about them, rather than running and hiding under the monocultural flag of one's choosing.

    Which god?

    Sorry, it has been a long day:

    First link, second and third.

    I have studied, with conscious purpose, the human condition for well over a decade now. At least 10% (or more than a year - full-time) of this study has included the hugely complex subject of comparative religion. If that should be further 'evidence' of my 'intolerance and bias', then I should be very happy to be labeled so. All of which brings me back to the central question, Len: If you are so sure that your god is the god, and that all other gods of the social construct are false gods, what makes this so? Why is it that those of the Abrahamic (monotheistic) faith have so much trouble in getting along with each other, even considering that each supposedly follow the same god? What about another third of the world's population, that which follows many gods (Hinduism) or indeed, no godhead at all (Buddhism)? Why is it that these great cultures have evolved with different understandings of the god concept, and for the large part been able to maintain their respective world views even in the face of the most hostile, and oppreseive attempt at indoctrination into believing otherwise? And what about we people that eschew all metaphysical phenonmenon, and instead understand all of these other human conditions to simply, but undoubtedly be wonderful emotional responses to biological (electrical and hormonal) processes of the brain?

    But, once again, I digress...

    Have a good night, Len. I have to get back to my life's work.

    Cheerio, Markos
     
  14. ecodharmamark

    ecodharmamark Junior Member

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    G'day MINH

    No, not a masochist, but simply a scholar - although sometimes I wonder if the two are not inextricable entwined...

    Permaculture, or at least one portion of one leaf on the flower, is dedicated to the study of the metaphysical (read: 'spiritual'). We owe it to ourselves to at least try and understand the infinitely complex world views of all others. Otherwise, what hope have we all got of coming together (or at least reaching the fabled 10%) for the sake of humanity, not to mention all other spp. it is proposed we will annihilate?

    Cheerio, Markos
     
  15. mouseinthehouse

    mouseinthehouse Junior Member

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    Very true - we all need to make an effort to try to understand the viewpoint of others. Perhaps we can try too hard? I think there is a very subtle line where questioning to further that understanding becomes something else. When one comes from a scholarly, scientific, secular standpoint one naturally tries to elicit answers that justify or prove or logically/rationally explain another's view, belief or opinion. Sometimes people are unable to provide such answers. Sometimes they won't provide such answers and sometimes they just do not want to.
    I think the truly wise thing is to know when to be humble and put the questioning aside. Something I sadly learnt last year to my (short term) detriment and sadness but (long term) benefit. :)
    And with that I am WAAAY off topic!
     
  16. ecodharmamark

    ecodharmamark Junior Member

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    G'day MITH (sorry about the previous MINH)

    Yes, what you say is also quite true. I would even not think of being so belligerent (polemic) in my choice of discourse style with someone that I had only just met. Len and I go waaaaaaay back. I really do enjoy our banter, and I really do try to not offend. However, by spending the first 20-years of my life as a rapidly evolving eco-anarchist/atheist in a largely conservative family/home town, it meant that I quickly had to learn how to be very persuasive with my words, and in my earlier youth, my fists. Of course, today, it is always the former that I rely upon, even if it does sometimes appear on the surface to be a bit pugilistic.

    Cheerio, Markos
     
  17. mouseinthehouse

    mouseinthehouse Junior Member

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    No worries Markos!

    I personally don't find the content of anything you post aggressive or offensive - you are always quite measured and polite!
    I guess I was trying to postulate that the very act of questioning another, at times, can become more about ourselves than the other.
    I am speaking from my own experience here - ;)
     
  18. ecodharmamark

    ecodharmamark Junior Member

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    G'day MITH

    Once again, you are most correct. Thanks for the reminder. As my dear old Nana would say: "You can lead a horse to water, but you can'y make it drink".

    Cheerio, Markos
     

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