Milk, Raw or Pasteurised?

Discussion in 'Planting, growing, nurturing Plants' started by Jet, Jun 7, 2005.

  1. Jet

    Jet Junior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2005
    Messages:
    52
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    :?: Hi,
    We have just moved from a 3/4 acre block to our small farm (100 acres) in a bid to be fully self sufficient. I am wondering should I pasteurise my milk. We take delivery of our house cow this week and her current owners have it raw. I know the for and against but we will have cattle coming and going from our property in the form of steers. They will be away from the house cow but next door graze their cattle from time to time in the next paddock. So I guess what I'm saying is even though I know the status of my cattle I don't think I should take the risk? Also we have an eighteen month old and I'd hate to risk her health. Just wondering what others do?

    So glad I found this site, I have been growing my own vegies for years and have always kept chooks but permie's seem to be few and far between!
     
  2. SueinWA

    SueinWA Junior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2005
    Messages:
    1,251
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I would ask your veterinarian. He should know the risks.

    Sue
     
  3. Tamandco

    Tamandco Junior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2004
    Messages:
    915
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I'm currently asking the same question. Have been pasteurising up until now as a matter of precaution but would prefer not to.

    Could you please post any info you manage to acquire.

    Thanks

    Tam
     
  4. zak

    zak Guest

    We do pasteurise our milk from a neighbor because we know he isn't as higenic as us in other words its always a risk. But it is also proven that the calcium cristalizes and the can not profit from it. Our own milk we keep it natural since we know our cow. Did you know you can do yogurt very easy without heating your milk, just with the same temperature that it comes out from the cow? its excellent and keeps all the absorvable calcium. Sorry for my english.. For more info of yogurt please contact us. Hug and much vision!!
     
  5. SueinWA

    SueinWA Junior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2005
    Messages:
    1,251
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Zak, your English is good enough for us to understand, and that's all it has to be!

    A retired farmer friend of mine said she was reading that some farmers don't even bother to wash the udders of their cows before they slap on the milking machine! Ugh! THAT is one of the reasons why milk is pasturized! And why it's nice to grow your own...

    Sue
     
  6. Jet

    Jet Junior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2005
    Messages:
    52
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I have done a little more research and came across this site https://www.realmilk.com
    I'm still unsure if I will pasteurise or not. Like I said in my first post even though the previous owners drank this cows milk raw, Tilda (the cow) will be kept in a paddock where she will come into contact with next doors cattle from time to time. These cattle are on adjistment so I have no idea about their immunisation status etc. Also they are beef cattle so are treated a little differently from dairy. So I guess at this stage given I have two small children I think I will pasteurise? Well, I have about three days to make my mind up! :roll: Ok I'm off now to sift through the massive array of information I have sourced.
    Thank's for your replies,
    Jet
     
  7. SueinWA

    SueinWA Junior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2005
    Messages:
    1,251
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    You can always start off pasturizing until you know more. If you find out that it's safe, you can always go raw when you feel comfortable with it.

    Sue
     
  8. Tamandco

    Tamandco Junior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2004
    Messages:
    915
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Why have you got 3 days to make up your mind? (Just being a sticky beak!)

    Zac mentioned about the yoghurt. You also mentioned that you already know the pros and cons, and may already know this but were you aware that unlike pasteurised milk that goes 'off', raw milk 'sours' which is actually a sought after stage of many milk products? With pasteurised milk, you need to use starters and all sorts of artificial or introduced gimicks.

    I wonder if it's at all possible to, rather than have the vet blood test the cow which would come up costly if repeated too often, to send a sample of the milk to the labs at CSIRO or similar to hav it tested for the nasties?

    We have our animals' poo worm tested so I wonder if we could have the milk bacteria or virus tested? Just an idea.

    Pam
     
  9. miss.vitalis

    miss.vitalis Junior Member

    Joined:
    May 28, 2005
    Messages:
    20
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    off topic - zak - what a big cabbage!!!!
     
  10. Jet

    Jet Junior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2005
    Messages:
    52
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I don't mind, sticky beak away.
    Well I thought I had three days before the delivery of our cow, but the owner rang this morning and is brining her down today!
    I have decided to not pasturise the milk. After spending most of yesterday reading up on the topic and the fact that the previous owners who have always owned her drank her milk raw and have never encounted a problem. I think the pros of raw milk far out weigh the cons.

    So with that decided I am now excitedly rushing around getting things ready. I must mention we are total newbies to house cows so any tips and advise regarding worming, udder dip/balm is going to be much appreciated.

    Thanks,
    Jet.
     
  11. Tamandco

    Tamandco Junior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2004
    Messages:
    915
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Hi Jet,

    That's great. So by now you will have her! Is she a Jersey? Also does your house cow have a calf on her or do you have to milk her yourself every day?

    I haven't really got any suggestions re worming etc as I've been using a commercial preparation (yes, poisons) for ours but I would like to mention a few things that I encountered.

    1st thing, before our cow went to the bull, the bull owners requested that she be wormed as all of theirs had already been done. Anyway, I went to the rural suppliers and came home with this stuff which is supposed to do everything. Then I had some second thought as I was pregnant and concerned about the risks to the baby.

    There was NO withholding period as far as milking went, so that was good, plus there was no withholding period as far as slaughter for human consumption so that was also good. The help desk took my query re my pregnancy and contacted their 'expert', rang me back and advised that although they recommend that usual safety measures be carried out, that is the operator wear gloves and doesn't swallow etc, the product is extremely safe, one of the safest on the market. The fact that they can use it on milk producer, pregant cows etc and there being no withholding period supports this.

    If you want to avoid using chemical wormers, which I guess is our aim, then there are ways you can achieve this however I'd strongly recommend that new stock be isolated and wormed, and the poo picked up prior to being released into the main grazing area. That way, you begin with a clean, parasite free cow.

    Pat Coleby's Natural farming (or whatever, can't remember what it's called) covers natural methods of parasite control and other farm management issues. I haven't actually got this book but have got her copy of Natural Horse Care which I apply to many things around our small but extremely productive property. I would certainly recommend that you try and get a copy. There are often a couple on eBay.

    When I had the horses, I used to have their poo tested for parasites. Every 6 months I'd take a sample and send it off for testing. That way, I didn't worm unless absolutely necessary (which I didn't have to do anyway as whatever I was doing was working brilliantly) and I could monitor the effectiveness of my natural methods.

    People will tell you to use this and use that but you really need a way to test whether your method is working. I knew a guy who was using natural methods to treat his dogs and in the end, his favorite pooch died from a severe worm infestation. After that, he had his other dog blood tested and the test came back +ve for I'm not really sure what but it included heart worm. The vet said it was so far gone that it was untreatable and all he could do was ensure the dog was comfortable and wait out his days. The dog died last year at the age of 5 years old.

    I'm not entirely sure of the facts of this story and can only relay what others said who knew him and knew of his situation.

    If you are interested in the poo test, your local vet should be able to advise you on this.

    Re udder care, I don't use any udder balm but I use woolmix to cleans prior to milking. I pour just a little mild antiseptic into the solution too. I'm not into buying commercial products as I just try to make do with what I've got at home. I also use the woolmix on my dog and used to use on my show horses with fantastic results.

    The most important thing is technique, if you are careful with your technique, you shouldn't cause any damage. I don't really like the idea of stripping the udder throughout the whole milking as this is very harsh, but some people do. I only strip the last of the milk to ensure an empty udder.

    The reason I don't use salve is because as a 2nd time breastfeeding mum, (the first I fed until nearly 2) I always just rubbed a little breast milk and allowed to dry in the air being given that advise by the ABA. So I apply the same practices to my cow, that is lubricate the teats with milk then after milking, allow to dry naturally in the air. The udder salve is like really thick vaseline which I think would prevent the air from getting to the skin and I really don't believe that this would be a good thing. Basically, I try to mimic as much from nature as I can and these things I decided after my own experiences together with observing our calves.

    Tam
     
  12. SueinWA

    SueinWA Junior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2005
    Messages:
    1,251
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Tam, I don't have a cow, will probably NEVER have a cow, but I was quite impressed with the common-senseness of your post.

    Many animal owners who want to go natural (and I'm all for that, basically) don't research their info well enough and the animal is usually the one to suffer for it. They tend to forget that there are natural remedies that work and those that don't. Some only work under certain conditions and some don't work at all.

    Thanks for the info!

    Sue
     
  13. Jet

    Jet Junior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2005
    Messages:
    52
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Thank you so much for all your help Tam. Yes our cow arrived yesterday with her mini belted galloway calf (very cute) She is a jersey x fressian.
    Her previous owners drenched her about a wekk ago but I am going to ring the vet today and ask about tests etc.
    Well this mornings milking was a disaster!!!! But at least I know why.
    This cow is such a sweetie she travelled seven hours, strange place, hasn't been hand milked in a while and has her calf and still let me lead her up to the milking shed, tie her up and fumble around trying to milk her for twenty minutes. (I got about five squirts) Her udder just didn't seem full.
    The woman I brought her off just use to get to her before the calf but I really don't think that will work for us so we will lock the calf away from her tonight.
    So given how new this all is to me and given that I am new to her I am fairly confident in a few weeks we will have worked each other out. I had her tied, and she just stood eating away with me pulling and prodding :lol: didn't move or try to kick. The calf was mooing like mad!
    Hubby is home in the morning and he has milking experience so hopefully I will get my first glass of milk tomorrow, or at least enough for a cup of tea.
    I will let you know how we go.
    Thank's
    Jet
     
  14. Tamandco

    Tamandco Junior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2004
    Messages:
    915
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    That sounds great.

    It's really hard to start with but if there's anything I could advise, be prepared before you begin is # 1.

    Make sure you have everything on hand. A bucket of lukewarm/warm water with whatever you choose to rinse the udder in, within reach as you might need to sponge her a few times if she poos, or moves around and kicks up a little dirt etc. Have a couple of old towels on hand, one to wipe her, one for your hands. I call them 'horse towels' and we have heaps of them. Have a lid for your bucket. It's recommended you use stainless steel and these can be VERY expensive from the rural suppliers @ over $100 plus the price of the lid. My dad found me one (yes, it is stainless steel) for $20 from one of the Asian variety shops. I just sit the nappy bucket lid on top. It's really only to stop the flies, dust, poo getting in.

    I use a wire milk crate to sit on as this is my own little seat for resting around the garden and I'm comfortable on it. I can also 'pivot' on it if I want to change position slightly as I sometimes get a bit sore in the shoulder if I've been at it for a while.

    The 'let down' reflex only lasts for around 20 minutes, but due to my inexperience, I tend to take quite a bit longer. My cow doesn't seem to have any problem with this.

    It is preferable to have her milking area with a concrete floor but we haven't had the $$$ to have this done as yet. If while I'm milking her she moves around a bit, the dust can fly up and land in the bucket. Also if she poos as it just splatters everywhere and will splash yards away. I always make sure I've got the lid ready to quickly cover the bucket if either of these things are about to occur. You get to anticipate these things pretty quickly. That way, the milk that you have painstakingly already collected, doesn't get contaminated.

    After milking, strain the milk through a linen tea towe which has been boiled, or cheesecloth if you have any. I just happen to have some pretty handy tea towels around the place. You will be amazed how many little bits of dirt the straining process picks up.

    Did I mention the method of cream separation I use. I can take a photo of the container and try to stick it into the post if you're interested. It is a plastic container which shouldn't be used for storing milk but I always sterislise it with boiling water and am meticulous about it's cleanliness, so it's a risk I'm willing to take for the sake of it's convenience.

    I collect the glass cranberry juice bottles for storage as these can be sterilised either with boiling water or in the oven (I use boiling water). Some people use flagons but I haven't been able to accumulate many of these and love the shape and weight of the cranberry juice bottles, they're so much easier to handle, plus they fit in the fridge really well. I have heaps of spare ones so if you wanted, I could send you up half a dozen or so. I think the company has recently converted to plastic bottles.

    We have a little calf shed and put our calf away in the evening, then milk the cow in the morning prior to putting him back on. She can get quite anxious if she hears him calling out to her and won't stand up very well, but this is more so a problem in the first week or so. Once the routine becomes established, things get better.

    Our setup could be a lot better but we're having to work with what we've got re sheds, milking bales etc. I think she would be better if she could touch noses with him while I'm milking her, but our yards aren't adequate enough to prevent him from accessing the udder through the side of the fence. Something we'll need to work on.

    Just a few things that might help,
    Tam
     
  15. Jet

    Jet Junior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2005
    Messages:
    52
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Hi Tam,
    Thank you so much for your advice, It is very hard to start out but we are getting there. Hubby is a much better milker than me but I'm sure given a few weeks I will have it down. We biult a race on the weekend so milking is much easier now. We have been locking the calf up of a night and Tilda waits at the gate in the morning to go into the race. Her previous owners have trained her very well so she knows what 'in the race' means. She leaves the calf and is not bothered by his bellowing. We do seem to be having a few let down problems though. One teat milks really well but we just can't get milk out of the other three. The owner did say one was much easier than th others. I still think she is holding up. Hopefully in a couple of weeks she will learn the routine and relax a little. Thank god for the calf, he cleans up after us.

    I bought all of my milking stuff the other day from a kitchen store, stainless steel pot, strainers etc. Cost me a fortune but oh well I have it all now. I have two, 3 litre glass jars that fit in my fridge well and they sell all sorts of glass containers at the shop, you know the ones you use for pickling etc. It's a shame about the cranberry bottles, they come in handy, bloody plastic, taking over the world.

    Once again thanks for the advice, I will keep you posted on how we go. I will feel much better once we can milk all four teats.

    Thank's,
    Jet.
     
  16. Tamandco

    Tamandco Junior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2004
    Messages:
    915
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Hi Jet.

    It sounds like you're really organised. You're lucky your hubby is capable of helping out. Mine's pretty hopeless with all things manual.

    Re the teats, is the udder 'full' in all 4 quarters of just the one that's easy to milk? What concerns me is that the calf might have a preference for one teat and if he's feeding from that one more than the others, the milk production from the others will reduce until only one will produce any milk at all.

    It might be an idea when she's in the race to try and encourage the calf to feed off the other 3 teats by bringing him around the other side, putting up a rail, whatever works. The calf is the most efficient 'milking machine' and will manage to draw out every last drop, unlike an artificial milker or a human. This will encourage the milk production in those quarters to increase and eventually catch up to the one that's ok. Keep an eye on him when they're in the paddock together and try and see which teat his feeding on and for how long.

    Don't be tempted to only milk the one that's easy. Put a lot of effort into the other 3 otherwise she could dry up completely in those quarters. Even if you don't get any, or just a few drops, all the time you're trying and the calf is trying, is stimulating the udder to produce more milk.

    Even if they have dried up, it's possible sometimes to get them to relactate. Our cow was away for 8 weeks and since she's been back, our belted galloway x foster calf has resumed snacking off her. There's not enough for us as well but if I persevered by putting her in the bales and allowed the calf sufficient access to the udder regularly enough, I know we'd be able to get her back to reasonable production.

    You're lucky to have all the 'new' stuff. It will make your job so much easier in the long run. I'm afraid I'm somewhat of a cheapskate and try to do things with the minimum of expense.

    Tam
     

Share This Page

-->