Map shows Earth's hotter future

Discussion in 'The big picture' started by Michaelangelica, Oct 27, 2009.

  1. Michaelangelica

    Michaelangelica Junior Member

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    Ahead of December?s international climate change talks in Copenhagen, the Government is aiming for an agreement that limits climate change as far as possible to 2 degrees Celsius. Increases of more than 2 degrees will have huge impacts on the world. [/quote]
    https://www.sciencealert.com.au/news-nz/ ... 20090.html
    The Map:-
    https://www.actoncopenhagen.decc.gov.uk/ ... grees-map/
     
  2. eco4560

    eco4560 New Member

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    Re: Map shows Earth's hotter future

    Has anyone got a handle on what is actually in the proposed ETS? Seems like no-one has a good word to say about it other than Kevin 07....
     
  3. Flying Binghi

    Flying Binghi Junior Member

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    Re: Map shows Earth's hotter future

    A short video outlineing the ETS scam here -

    Liberal Senator Cory Bernardi levels with voters: the ETS is a fraud. Cutting our emissions will do nothing for the climate, but sure will kill jobs. https://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andr ... us_all/P0/
     
  4. ecodharmamark

    ecodharmamark Junior Member

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    Re: Map shows Earth's hotter future

    G'day Eco

    I cannot profess to having studied in any great detail the entire bill, and all the guff that has preceded its tabling in parliament, but I have picked up a few interesting tidbits along the way. One of these little crumbs of information came to our class at a uni last week via Alan Pears (see: https://www.rmit.com.au/browse;ID=1hvhhv4zan5t). Alan informed us that the 'cap and trade' format that is our (Australian) ETS - otherwise known as the CPRS (Carbon Pollution Reduction Scheme) - is in fact a 'floor, cap and trade' model. What was more important was that he was able to describe (in laypersons terms) that the proposed system in fundamentally flawed (or is that 'floored'?)! What does this mean? Effectively (and treasury's own figures bear this out) under the proposed ETS, CO2 emissions from Australia's black and brown coal industries will not fall until 2033! And, this fall will only occur because of an assumed intervention of clean coal technology! Madness! Anyway, you check it all out at at The Australia Institute - Policy Brief No. 5: Harder to do than to say? - The failure of the CPRS to reduce emissions from coal-fired power stations (see: https://www.tai.org.au/index.php?q=node ... &pubid=686)

    Cheerio, Marko.
     
  5. ecodharmamark

    ecodharmamark Junior Member

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    Re: Map shows Earth's hotter future

    G'day Flying Binghi

    A true cut in GHG emissions - nothing less than 100%, and nothing less than right now - will do everything for our climate, and in turn, everything for our future survival as a species.

    "Killing jobs" is a big 'L' Liberal (in the Australian context), and a small 'L' neo-liberal/conservative (Andrew Bolt) fallacy.

    A GHG neutral economy (achieved by the wholesale application of permaculture principles, for example) will create a zero unemployment situation.

    Oh, and for the record, no I did not watch the video, but thanks for the invitation. In response, I could suggest hundreds of areas where you might like to focus your learning (other than from the pages of a tabloid newspaper) about the above points that I have made, but I fear that it would be a waste of time. Please prove me wrong.

    Cheerio, Mark.
     
  6. milifestyle

    milifestyle New Member

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    Re: Map shows Earth's hotter future

    Even the government relies on science to give them answers... problem is, Science has to get it WRONG before it can get it right. Thats why science is based on Experimentation and reflection (Getting things wrong, then finding out how to put it right).
     
  7. Flying Binghi

    Flying Binghi Junior Member

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    Re: Map shows Earth's hotter future

    Prove ya wrong about what ecodharmamark..?
     
  8. ecodharmamark

    ecodharmamark Junior Member

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    Re: Map shows Earth's hotter future

    G'day Flying Binghi

    I was hoping that you would prove me wrong by at least riling against my arrogance for even thinking, much less stating, that you blindly believe what Andrew Bolt tells you rather than going out and conducting your own research. But, I could be wrong... again.

    Cheerio, Marko.
     
  9. Flying Binghi

    Flying Binghi Junior Member

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    Re: Map shows Earth's hotter future

    Hmmm,...where did you get the idea ah dont do my own research eh, ecodharmamark ?
     
  10. ecodharmamark

    ecodharmamark Junior Member

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    Re: Map shows Earth's hotter future

    G'day Flying Binghi

    Just an assumption, and like I have said (twice now), I could be wrong.

    However...

    Re: Soil in the sky

    by Flying Binghi Mon Sep 28, 2009 12:23 pm

    gardenlen, ultimatly Chernoble was'nt a problem to those down wind (it was a concern at the time though) so wouldnt worry about the miniscule amount of uranium dust from Woomera. Theres likely more uranium dust from natural sources.


    The Chernobyl incident remains one of the greatest human against human/non-human tragedies of the modern era. To dismiss the gravity of the situation for the people who were living "down wind" at the time, much more so for the 5.5 million people who are forced due to social, political and cultural circumstances to still live within the contaminated zone, displays the utmost in arrogance and an absolute measure of one's inability to conduct one's own research:

    In the night of 25 to 26 April 1986, the explosion of the reactor in Chernobyl, the greatest industrial disaster in the history of humankind, released one hundred times more radiation than the atom bombs dropped over Hiroshima and Nagasaki. In addition to the reactor's immediate surroundings - an area with a radius of about 30 km - other regions were contaminated, particularly in Belarus, Russia and Ukraine.

    The contaminated territories lie in the north of Ukraine, the south and east of Belarus and in the western border area between Russia and Belarus. International estimates suggest that a total of between 125 000 and 146 000 km2 in Belarus, Russia and Ukraine are contaminated with caesium-137 at levels exceeding 1 curie (Ci) or 3.7 x 1010 becquerel (Bq) per square kilometre. This is an area greater than that of the neighbouring countries of Latvia and Lithuania combined. At the time of the accident, about 7 million people lived in the contaminated territories, including 3 million children. About 350 400 people were resettled or left these areas. However, about 5.5 million people, including more than a million children, continue to live in the contaminated zones...

    Because of variable weather conditions in the days following the accident, radiation also spread over large parts of Scandinavia, Poland and the Baltic states, as well as southern Germany, Switzerland, northern France and England.


    Source: https://www.chernobyl.info/index.php?use ... D=2&lID=2#

    Re: Meeting global challenges, collaboratively-Sackett

    by Flying Binghi Wed Sep 23, 2009 3:30 pm

    Why would any kid want to be a scientist ? ...take the climate change scam as an example - there's little science in the issue and any scientist who objects to the human global warming scam is branded a heretic. Garth Paltridge gives an excellent overview of the current 'faith based' climate science industry in his book The Climate Caper.


    Garth Paltridge's The Climate Caper is a work of fiction. Within its pages there is not one instance of where he has supporting (peer-reviewed) evidence for any of the outlandish claims he dares to make. Anyone who reads it and therefore assumes an understanding of climate science on the totally unsubstantiated claims of just one scientist, I would argue, is indeed at a very great risk of being considered incapable of conducting credible research.

    Re: Map shows Earth's hotter future

    by Flying Binghi Tue Oct 27, 2009 3:47 pm

    Liberal Senator Cory Bernardi levels with voters: the ETS is a fraud. Cutting our emissions will do nothing for the climate, but sure will kill jobs.

    https://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andr ... us_all/P0/


    Bernardi is a politician. That should be enough said when it comes to the matter of conducting credible research. However, Bernardi is a self-confessed (see: https://www.senatorbernardi.com/climate_change/) anthropogenic climate change denier, and that seals the case. The world has moved on. The debate is no longer relevant.

    Bolt is the newspaper equivalent of a 'shock jock'. The Alan Jones of the newspaper world, if you like. Bolt is paid to sell advertising. Sensationalist, gutter journalism sells. The research credibility of Bolt, and anyone associated with his venom, is zero.

    Cheerio, Mark.
     
  11. Flying Binghi

    Flying Binghi Junior Member

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    Re: Map shows Earth's hotter future

    WOW, talk about being beaten over the head with an Algorian hocky stick.

    Hmmm, just one scientist eh, ecodharmamark.

    From page 63, The Climate Caper; Paltridge writes,"...much of the limited amount of publicly expressed scepticism about...climate change comes from scientific retirees" ...and why does Garth Paltridge make this claim ?...read the book.

    Anyway, heres his CV -

    Emeritus Professor Garth Paltridge is an atmospheric physicist and was a Chief Research Scientist with the CSIRO Division of Atmospheric Research before taking up positions in Tasmania as Director of the Institute of Antarctic and Southern Ocean Studies and CEO of the Antarctic Cooperative Research Centre.He retired in 2002
    His research ranged from the optimum design of plants to the economics of climate forecasting. He is best known internationally for work on atmospheric radiation and the theoretical basis of climate.

    Book via - https://www.connorcourt.com/catalog1/ind ... cts_id=113
     
  12. Flying Binghi

    Flying Binghi Junior Member

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    Re: Map shows Earth's hotter future

    Reading some of the comments at Bolts blog their are many who think the words "Prime Minister Bernardi" has a certain ring to it... certainly sounds better then the 'never been' never will be, Turnbull.

    Interesting comments via - https://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andr ... rt_us_all/
     
  13. Flying Binghi

    Flying Binghi Junior Member

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    Re: Map shows Earth's hotter future

    ...Hmmm, for some reason, ecodharmamark, i have a vision of you reading a newspaper right now. Not you in this video is it... https://www.abc.net.au/insiders/content/ ... 710659.htm

    Interestingly, i oft quote the Oz ABC...perhaps by the ecodharmamark way of thinking, i'm a closet left wing numpty...

    A google of "Flying Binghi" will offer an insight to much that i research/reference.
     
  14. ecodharmamark

    ecodharmamark Junior Member

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    Re: Map shows Earth's hotter future

    G'day Flying Binghi

    No, not Al Gore (nor the now infamous 'hockey stick' graph), just good old fashioned, plain, peer-reviewed scientific research outcomes. Just for the record, Al Gore and I have little in common. I have never watched his film, nor read his book. I prefer to get my 'truth' (so to speak), directly from the researcher's mouth (or better still, from peer-reviewed papers).

    On Paltridge, or more specifically on his recent essay, The Climate Caper: Facts and Fallacies of Global Warming:

    You draw my attention to p. 63, or more specifically to parts of the second paragraph, which in its unmolested, back-in-context form, reads:

    "The story illustrates one of the reasons why it is no accident that much of the limited amount of publicly expressed scepticism about the disatorous nature of climate change comes from scientific retirees." (my emphasis added in bold)

    Here, Paltridge is bleating on in reference to a "perennial story" about how retired scientists (or even those still in practice) are silenced due to some big brother conspiracy that threatens to pull their funding if they "...step too far away from alignment with public belief" (p. 62 - my emphasis in bold).

    And what does Paltridge offer as supporting evidence in this grand conspiracy committed against him and all these supposedly other scientists? One other lone voice in the wilderness, that of "...Dr Brian Tucker, a former Chief of CSIRO's Division of Atmospheric Research..." (p. 63). Tucker's 'story' is a whole other issue, and neither time nor interest allows for the re-telling of it here. However, while we are on the subject of the CSIRO funding, let us return to Paltridge's 'story'...

    On February 22, 2006, John Quiggan (noted commentator on 'Australian and world events from a social-democratic perspective') posted the following:

    Today’s Fin (subscription only) has a piece by AGW contrarian Garth Paltridge claiming that, while he was establishing the Antarctic CRC in the early 1990s, CSIRO threatened to pull out of the project if he didn’t stop saying in the media that there were doubts about the science of global warming. CSIRO’s motive, he says, was the desire to extract millions of dollars in funding from the “newly-established” Australian Greenhouse Office. Paltridge presents this as a counter to the recent Four Corners program about suppression of scientists like Graham Pearman, and it reads very effectively. The same story is reported by Andew Bolt.

    There is just one slight problem with the story. The Antarctic CRC was set up in 1991 with CSIRO participation. Further negotiations (given the timelags in putting together a CRC bid and getting it approved, these would have been in the mid-1990s), led to a new version of the CRC which commenced operations in 1997 (it’s not clear if CSIRO was part of this one).

    The Australian Greenhouse Office wasn’t “newly established” in the early 1990s, or even in 1997: in fact it wasn’t established at all until 1998. Its formation wasn’t even announced by the Prime Minister until November 1997.

    Of course, it may be that this dispute took place at some other time and in the context of some other negotiation. But if Paltridge is wrong on dates and context, maybe he has also got other things wrong, such as the content of the conversations he describes.

    Source: https://johnquiggin.com/index.php/archiv ... 22/dating/

    Seems Paltridge is slow to learn, or just plainly refuses to accept, that if you are going to make wild claims, then you need to have evidence to back them up, or run the risk of having all your previous work (some of which may indeed be credible) discarded.

    As for Andrew Bolt, well, he would never ever let a the facts get in the way of a good story, so we have learnt nothing new there.

    Returning to Paltridge's latest offering, that anyone could ever think that I would make such a bold statement as to say that it is "...a work of fiction" without having first read it, must surely be making the mistake of grossly underestimating my integrity as a researcher. All throughout his work there are numerous 'stories' that usually start with a paragraph beginning thus, "Which leads to a more modern tale..." (P. 64), or "Rumour has it that sometime..." (p. 66 - once again, my emphasis in bold added on both occasions). Therefore, I stand by my original critique and reiterate, Paltridge's The Climate Caper is a work of fiction. Further, I would add, it offers nothing new to either the old, dead-and-buried debate as to whether climate change is human-induced or not, or what is much more important today, it adds nothing new to how we are going to solve the problem.

    Cheerio, Mark.
     
  15. ecodharmamark

    ecodharmamark Junior Member

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    Re: Map shows Earth's hotter future

    G'day Flying Binghi

    I have no idea what you are referring to in the earlier part of this post. As to the prevalence of your handle upon Googling, I will take you word for it. Good luck with your 'research/referencing'.

    Cheerio, Mark.
     
  16. ecodharmamark

    ecodharmamark Junior Member

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    Re: Map shows Earth's hotter future

    G'day Flying Binghi

    I have no interest in political spin, either first, second or third hand. My reading of Bernardi's personal web page (see: previously provided link) tells me all that I need to know with regards to that individual's world views. For the record, they bare to resemblance to my own. A reading of my 'signature' should make this very clear.

    I would like to say that it has been interesting time having this banter with you, but I can not. As such, I bid you farewell and wish you all the best on your journey.

    Cheerio, Mark.
     
  17. Flying Binghi

    Flying Binghi Junior Member

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    Re: Map shows Earth's hotter future

    Running away so soon ecodharmamark.... and here's me, barely started showing ya the limited research you claim i've done.....sorta like Al Gore himself..run around making wild accusations and claims, then running away when someone brings them to account.
     
  18. ecodharmamark

    ecodharmamark Junior Member

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    Re: Map shows Earth's hotter future

    G'day Flying Binghi

    Perhaps if you would care to respond to any one (preferably all) of the genuine 'claims' I have raised then we could continue with our discourse. Until such time, it is you I believe that is 'running'. Lighting fires (or 'flaming', the preferred past-time of forum 'trolls') is easy, putting them out takes real intellect and conviction.

    Cheerio, Marko.
     
  19. Flying Binghi

    Flying Binghi Junior Member

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    Re: Map shows Earth's hotter future

    Who has made a claim of a "grand conspiracy" eh ecodharmarmark ?

    it would be nice to find a "grand conspiracy" though it looks to be more a case of mass stupidity and greed.

    Anyway, Garth Paltridge is continuing to be shown as correct. Some recent news article -

    "A CSIRO economist whose research criticising emissions trading schemes was banned from publication said last night he had been subjected to harassment by the senior agency management..." https://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/st ... 02,00.html

    "...Far from censoring its scientists to ensure they toe the government's line, the CSIRO should be helping lead public debate by...." https://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/st ... 82,00.html


    Interestingly, Garth Paltridge had earlier made these comments -

    "I HEAR on the scientific grapevine that CSIRO’s biggest problem when providing formal advice to the federal Government on the matter of climate change is to say nothing that can be interpreted as giving aid and comfort to the army of irresponsible sceptics out there who are doubtful about the dreadful consequences of global warming..."
    https://blogs.theaustralian.news.com.au/ ... ed_by_fear

    "..Garth Paltridge, says he was threatened by the CSIRO with funding cuts in the 1990s if he expressed his doubts about the extent of the effect of greenhouse emissions..." https://www.smh.com.au/news/miranda-devi ... 31122.html

    "...Another eye-opener is the story of how a committee of the Australian Academy of Science was dissuaded from its plans to respond to the Garnaut Report. Paltridge says:
    “While the committee was aware of all the ‘ifs’ and ‘buts’ of 100-year prediction of rainfall, it was aware too of the delicacy of saying so in an Academy response. But if indeed there is something of the order of a 50-50 chance that the forecasts supplied to Garnaut were nonsense, then it seems reasonable that the fact should be made known in plain English ...” Academy members met Garnaut and “rumour has it that sometime during the meeting Professor Garnaut became very sympathetic to the need for vast new resources to address the need for basic research ... In the end it seems that the idea of a response to the Garnaut Report was dropped altogether.”
    https://climaterealists.com/index.php?id=4020
     
  20. Flying Binghi

    Flying Binghi Junior Member

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    Re: Map shows Earth's hotter future

    Hmmm, from the silence ah guess ecodharmarmark has accepted that Paltridge has been vindicated.

    LOL, May-be this dumb hill farmer me can do a little "credible research"

    Anyway, back to it...

    As a farmer who disagrees with the numptys who want me to pay money towards the Al Gore inspired climate scam i am used to being abused and called a sceptic and worse.... though the public jerk off by the "delusional" Prime Minister Rudd takes the cake. I'll let Bolt do the talking ...

    "Kevin Rudd goes feral, rebutting global warming sceptics and his critics not with facts but the most extraordinary abuse and wild claims...." https://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andr ... _100_years
     

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