Hi all I have recently completed a PDC and the Aid Workers Course with Geoff Lawson and Rosemary Morrow. I was a conference on food security crisis in Melbourne and ran into my past two lecturers. One was from my Bachelor of Agricultural Science and the other, the Masters of Social Science (International Development). I sat in on Darren Doherty's presentation on permaculture and later talked with my past pasture management lecturer. He was interested in introducing the concept of permaculture to the agricultural science course but was concerned about the scientific legitimacy of the concept. I think we can work to spread the education about permaculture using different strategies. The experienced permaculturalist are working on large scale farm projects and aid work in developing countries. There is now a permaculture diploma and certificate system through the Tafe systems. There are also many places throughout the worked to obtain a permaculture certificate training. It is the western countries with their industrial agriculture that need to be convinced of the benefits of permaculture. Developing countries do not have that luxury, if you have no food to eat and some one provides you with a possible solution, you will take it. I would like to see more experiments and documentation on the positive impact of permaculture on food security and biodiversity. I considered preparing an environmental impact assessment for new permaculture projects. This would act as a baseline data, for before the project starts and monitoring assessment during the life of the project, perhaps every 3 months or 6 months. Hopefully this would provide more documented evidence to convince the mainstream education institution about the benefits of permaculture. How much research has been done to assess the impacts of permaculture? I realise the movement has been grassroots and organic in its formation and organisation. Yet we all agree there is an impending crisis on the horizon because of the flaws in our economic, corporate, energy, industrial agriculture and consumer models. There is total disrespect for protecting the environment where we all obtain our resources and livelihoods. Yet, we need to engage in a dialogue with the institutions that control the mass education. However, the energy situation may make fertilisers and other inputs so costly that industrial agriculture will look for alternatives. By that time too much damage my have been done to sufficiently feed enough people.