Lost in Spain

Discussion in 'General chat' started by Comfrey, Apr 16, 2008.

  1. Comfrey

    Comfrey Junior Member

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    Hello Everyone

    I'm new to permaculture and to this (or any!) forum. I've really enjoyed reading through the site and I'm hoping to get a bit of encouragement from you...

    I'm living in South East Spain, in the mountains just behind the Mediterranean, it's a fantastic environment with lots of native herbs and spectacular scenery, also a lot of pensioned-off peasants who spend their days blasting everything that grows or moves with chemicals. It's olive, almond and early cherry country.

    I've got a little patio garden out the back of the house and a strip of terraced land five minutes walk away with some young fruit trees and a few vegetables. I think the soil is lime/clay, I'm not very good at that sort of thing, to me it just looks the wrong color (light grey) and texture (dust or concrete). There's an ancient, complicated watering system by channels and aqueducts from up in the village. so there is water available for the cost of a run up the hill to pull the stopper out - but what to do with it when it gets down to us? I don't know how swales would translate to what is essentially a flood irrigation system, I think watering is probably the first, major difficulty.

    Anyway, the plan is to transform all this into a lush mini food forest to feed my three littlies, without too much expense or labour (!!), but it's a bit daunting at the moment. I'm not having much luck finding people or plants here in Spain, so I'd really appreciate your ideas.

    In return I'm quite good on herbs of all sorts...

    Thanks a lot!!
     
  2. kathleenmc

    kathleenmc Junior Member

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    Re: Lost in Spain

    Hi Comfrey,

    Would love to urge you on your self sufficient way with encouragement and support.
    Lot's of first things you need to do:

    Do you know the language? It is always a good thing to know what the locals are talking about....they are a mine of info of what can and can't grow well in you area.

    What's the average rainfall? Need to know access and availability of water all year round. How do you get it to where you want it to go? There's a reason for the drainage system they have there (especially as it's ancient) and you need to find out from local knowledge how to use it properly.

    The thing about sustainable lifestyle living is that you have to make the 'hard work' part of how you live. You will have to determine how much time and effort you can put into making a garden for you and your family to make it work effiently and it has to be done as a fun, totally a part of your lives thing....not a chore! If it's a chore then it won't work for you. Everyone has to get involved some way too. Find the best strengths from everyone in the family and listen to and use what talents they may have....for example someone in your family may be good at building things....raised beds, rock walls or little green houses or boxes etc. Some may be good at propergating...they're the seed savers and seedling raisers. And don't think your kids are too young...they will get older in a flash and starting them off small on small jobs is a great teaching aid.

    Draw up your whole block with what you want to do and where....then choose one area to work on and get that completed and operating before you start the next....to see how much time and effort and maintenance you need to give to that area. Closest to back door easy reach kitchen garden is a must with herbs and continual leafy greens....or zone 1. Fruit trees and larger vege beds that need space and lots of sun (water at first) next....zone 2 etc.....

    Feel free to look at my sites below and contact me thru email if you like.

    Goodluck on your adventure

    cheers Kathleen
     
  3. Comfrey

    Comfrey Junior Member

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    Re: Lost in Spain

    Thanks Kathleen for your wise words

    I'm going to look into things like rainfall and get a list of autochtonous plants, and have a good look at your websites.

    Sounds like the place to start is a family meeting to see where we want to go next. Your right, we all need to work together and make it fun. I've got three kids, 2, 4 and 6.

    I think we've got a pretty good Zone 1 happening now. Last year we dug up our paved patio. We built up raised beds leaving only a circle in the middle for a table and chairs, then we brought in soil, compost, manure, straw mulch and pine bark mulch, and it was pretty hard work since you can't get a car or truck up to the door of our place. Maybe we should have sheetmulched instead. I put in irrigation which is cheap to do if you buy the pipe from agricultural suppliers, because we don't get any rain from April to October often and new plants can die quickly, but we're doing a very simple grey water system now by putting the washing machine on the top story terrace with a flexible hose down to the garden!

    What I can't get my head around is my piece of land, it's five minutes walk from the house with no vehicle access. I guess we are wanting to make a Zone 2 out of what should be a Zone 5 or something. I can't be sure of getting there every day. Maybe it is like having an allotment? I must admit I don't know where to start. I've planted some fruit trees, and we have a few annual vegetable beds every year. At the moment we just slash down the grass and weeds. We either need to lug down heaps of straw and manure or grow our own mulch I guess. I thought of sowing alfalfa, but I'm not sure how to get it started other than sheet mulching first. I thought it might be a good idea, for starters, to plant some n-fixing, fast growing trees (acacia maybe for one), a couple of big natives for the future, and mix some perennial vegetables and mulch plants into the beds. I think we've got to stick with the flood irrigation, but maybe I could plant some useful, water-loving plants along the channel. Lots of ideas, but as you say, we need a proper plan and then attack it bit by bit.

    I do speak Spanish, and it is interesting to talk to some of the very old folks around here. But there is a big culture of chemical spraying around here thanks to the days of intensive agriculture (this area of Spain is a huge exporter of fruit and veg) even though there is no money in it anymore. So it a question of trying to find some like minds, it would be great to see somebody else's set-up.

    I found there is a permaculture centre up near Tarragona, a few hundred km North of here where I could do a PDC, but it won't be for a while yet.

    It's all a bit overwhelming when you have an idea of what you want, then the reality of what's there is disappointing. We do have some successes though, like the amazing tree cucumber I grew through my olive trees last year.

    Thanks again for your help!
     
  4. kathleenmc

    kathleenmc Junior Member

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    Re: Lost in Spain

    Good to see you're already a long way into the project comf!

    I would contact the permie centre in Tarragona and see if there's someone near you to link up with...it would be great to get a 'support' group of permies going where you are. But also just let them know who you are and what you are intending to do....invite people down to see your bit. Just get those links happening.

    And there is nothing more empowering to others than to see and be lead by example by someone in their community. Getting info out to them about organics, biodynamics and permaculture could help...but you, just quietly doing your thing and doing it well, will be impressive....it worked for me in my own town...I'm surrounded by bare grassed poisoned backyards and mine is lush full and productive...

    You are definitely on the right track....keep up the good work. :mrgreen:

    Cheers Kathleen
     
  5. Comfrey

    Comfrey Junior Member

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    Re: Lost in Spain

    Thanks again Kathleen

    I've enjoyed looking at your sites and your backyard picks. Think I'll turn the kids' swings frame into a chook pen too when they've grown out of them! Did you have to protect much from foxes? We will have a bit of a problem with them I think, seeing our land is so far from the house.

    About your grass: could you replace it with, say, dwarf white clover? I haven't any direct experience with green manure crops but from what I've read it's got to be worth trying. And maybe the landlord wouldn't notice?!!
     
  6. kathleenmc

    kathleenmc Junior Member

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    Re: Lost in Spain

    Hi Comf,

    I would turn the grass to food first if I could but it's written into the lease that I leave it grass....I am intending to leave soon as one of my brothers is keen to set me up on my own piece of land to turn it into a permie paradise. We're just researching good financial terms for it....things are a bit dicey here in Aus at the moment....sky rocketing food and fuel prices, looks like we're heading into a recession, so need to plan well to meet those commitments if we do find some money from somewhere.

    The pic looks great! I can see what you mean by the grey soil. It looks volcanic to me...very old volcanic. Which means it would suit food growing very well, jsut by adding good organic mixers like straw, compost, manure, etc and compost teas. The slope is quite amazing too. Do you own it? Lots of vegetation around which is a good sign.

    Kids swings are so easy to make into a chook yard....I found it up the street from me when walking the dog and asked the owner if they wanted to get rid of it. They helped me walk it up the street to my place! You just have to ask hey!

    Good to see how your place is. Take more pics and post them when you can....Cheers Kathleen
     

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