Loss of confidence in the PDC course?

Discussion in 'Jobs, projects, courses, training, WWOOFing, volun' started by PeterFD, Jun 16, 2010.

  1. PeterFD

    PeterFD Junior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2009
    Messages:
    143
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Darren Doherty’s posting of 24 March 2010 informed all PRI members that; QUOTE “This afternoon we received notification from Lisa Mollison of The Permaculture Institute that they have decided to no longer have a Teacher Registration system and that all of our stock of Permaculture Design Certificates are to be returned” ENDQUOTE.

    Since this initial posting there have been a number of concerns raised that have been largely ignored.

    However, on 3rd April 2010 we received the news from Geoff and Nadia Lawton QUOTE “Hi All, we are now working on a new system through our institute the Permaculture Research Institute and we will be up and running very soon, things are now moving” ENDQUOTE.

    Well Geoff and Nadia, it’s now the 17th June 2010. Any news yet?

    Thanks,

    Peter
     
  2. earthworm

    earthworm Junior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2010
    Messages:
    5
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Frankly, who give a shit anymore what these 'gurus' of PC think about our status as teachers, registrations or whatever. If you have the qualities, knowledge, practical experience and teaching skills to pass on to students what they need to know about Permaculture and how to apply it, well go for it - set up your own course and do it well. Let Bill and Lisa and Geoff and Darren and whoever else fight amoungst themselves about their own little adminsitrative bullshit and let us genuine practitioners get on with what we do best. No-one owns PC! We all do.

    Permaculture will always be on the fringes, never gain mainstream acceptance and maintain the paradigm of 'hippy shit' if we all pander to dysfunctional gods. Get on with it or get out of the bloody way!
     
  3. Nick Huggins GC Qld

    Nick Huggins GC Qld Junior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2009
    Messages:
    22
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Peter,

    I was at the PRI with Geoff when this came to light. I was personally involved in helping with the creation and new direction of this accreditation. Its not as easy as closing one down and setting one up. Im sure that if you email geoff(at)permaculture.org.au or called geoff at the PRI and asked the question rather than some smart ass comment on the forum im sure you will get your answer your looking for and some insight on the complexitys of such a system and how it would be administrated. ENDQUOTE!!!
     
  4. PeterFD

    PeterFD Junior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2009
    Messages:
    143
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Hi Nick

    So ………. have I ruffled a few feathers?

    I take it from the lack of substance in your posting, you don’t know what’s going on either!!

    Perhaps someone at the PRI may like to tell ALL of us on the forum what’s going on, and, more important, why.

    When it comes to smart “Ass” comments, perhaps you would like to re-read what you have written?

    Can we PLEASE get an answer.

    Thanks,

    Peter
     
  5. pebble

    pebble Junior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2007
    Messages:
    2,721
    Likes Received:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    inland Otago, NZ
    Climate:
    Inland maritime/hot/dry/frosty
    Well Geoff and Nadia teach all over the world, they might even be a bit busy at the moment to be reading all the posts on this forum in case one of them is needing an answer from them ;-) It's not been 3 months yet since their statement of setting up a new teacher registration system, that doesn't seem a huge amount of time to set up an internationally recognised system.

    Thanks for the info Nick, I do think the bits about the process were helpful. Can you add more?

    Personally, if I get to do a PDC I'll be happy to check out the teachers myself. But I live in a small country where it's easy to find out about people. Plus I know enough about PC to know what questions to ask. I think for some people the teacher registration system will be useful. But absence of it doesn't diminish the PDC IMO and I haven't lost confidence in it as a way of learning PC (I'm care less about its value as a paper qualification but I know that is important to others.


    Anyhoo, I'm curious as to how many people here remember one of the central tenets of permaculture: care for people. Be kind, eh?
     
  6. PeterFD

    PeterFD Junior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2009
    Messages:
    143
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Hi Pebble.

    A cool head as always!

    However, when senior members of the PRI, like Geoff Lawton, decide to unexpectedly close teacher registration, and to recall all the PDC certificates, without a replacement system in place this is big news.

    What has happened that would force such urgency? Is this a case of countering corruption or the falsification of student worthiness for profit? “Give me a hundred dollar note in a plain brown envelope and you can have a PDC certificate with no questions asked!”

    Whilst such a suggestion will most likely be completely unfounded, the manner in which this issue has been handled certainly leaves the impression of such a possibility.

    Regrettably, when the PRI miss-handles such an important issue, the value of Permaculture will be diminished in the eyes of the world.

    If the PRI has the impetus to force through what can only be described as an emergency action, it must surely be in a position to justify its actions and to offer a better alternative.

    Personally, I believe that Earth Care, People Care, and Fair share, incorporates the right of all those directly involved to be equally included in the decision making process and to be treated with equal respect. I would hope that the tenets of exclusion and dictatorship would find a home elsewhere.

    So ………. it’s still over to you Geoff and Nadia, if you have a minute?

    Thanks,

    Peter
     
  7. andrew curr

    andrew curr Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2010
    Messages:
    1,194
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    38
    how about agroup e hug
     
  8. pebble

    pebble Junior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2007
    Messages:
    2,721
    Likes Received:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    inland Otago, NZ
    Climate:
    Inland maritime/hot/dry/frosty
    [laugh] I think that's going a bit far Andrew ;-P

    Peter, the previous registration system was done by the Mollisons at the Permaculture Institute. They decided to stop the registration process and recall the certificates (the blank ones I think), although I see that their statement about this has been removed from their website (which might be a good sign that something else is being set up). I don't know if the Lawtons were involved in that decision but the PRI and the PI are different organisations.

    From what I can tell there are alot of politics involved in this.

    I note that Mollisons still have the registered teachers list on their website, also a good sign perhaps:

    https://www.tagari.com/courses/teacherRegisterInformation/teacher_list
     
  9. sun burn

    sun burn Junior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2010
    Messages:
    1,676
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    "when the PRI miss-handles such an important issue, the value of Permaculture will be diminished in the eyes of the world."

    No, just the value of the courses.
     
  10. purplepear

    purplepear Junior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2009
    Messages:
    2,456
    Likes Received:
    10
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Occupation:
    Farm manager/ educator
    Location:
    Hunter Valley New South Wales
    Home Page:
    Climate:
    warm temperate - some frost - changing every year
    Not even that Sunburn. IMO the value of the PDC is in the quality of the practicioners. Permaculture is designed to be resilient.
     
  11. Fernando Pessoa

    Fernando Pessoa Junior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2009
    Messages:
    316
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I can't help myself.
    I know that I should be ommm,moksh,enlightened,chilled,calm,peaceful and at one with it all.

    I do understand that being upset by incredible stupidity and the whining of sycophants, should be beneath me,that even participating in discussions like this lowers me almost to pond scum,however I just cannot resist.
    I am a human bean after all.
    I am breaking my vow of silence on this one.(yes Bernado I will give you that 100 dollars you win).

    Nick and Purple Pear and others have attempted to reason with Peter.

    Peter what ever right you think you have to be upset,and this goes for the other bawling babies as well,you don't.

    You are not the thorny pioneers who broke the ground on permaculture,you don't have several millions of miles worth of traveled road under your feet.You haven't contributed to the inspiration or the changing of hundreds of thousands of lives.You have not sacrificed health,endured hardship to change the world.It's quite obvious your french grapes are sour.
    In short your use of trigger words" dictatorship" et all,your smugness with the statement "if they have a minute" Shows me that you have no grasp of just how hard Bill Geoff Nadia and Lisa work.

    Not just in the last 3 months,but for the last 30 years.

    It's sycophants like you, ugly bitter failed little humans that stir up a fuss when there is none.

    You use sly accusations and innuendo,these attacks make me think why do Bill and Geoff and all the other"Guru's" who are out there doing it bother when even their "own" are against them.
    The dogs bark but the caravan moves on.

    That's right Peter and other assorted sooks,Bill gave birth to you,it's his name on the book,it's his and David's doings,that allow you to even post on this forum and call yourselves Permacultralists.
    Bernado has word for your type,it's the perma-vulture,you are not able to make your own spiritual food so you squabble and fight over anothers.
    Who have you inspired Peter(besides me,into instant dislike ?)
    What have you shared with,Geoff and Bill ,Peter?(beside your indignation at the inconvenience they have caused you?)
    I do see that you think " Fair Share" is part of the ethics.

    I think maybe you should read the manual,page 2 is where you will find the ethics.
    1.2 to be precise.
    It's,ethic 3
    "Set limits to the population and consumption"
    No mention of fair share.

    It's a shame that the good doctors that delivered you didn't practice this ethic with much vigor when your parents had their great misfortune.
    Best wishes Fernando Pessoa
     
  12. Michaelangelica

    Michaelangelica Junior Member

    Joined:
    May 2, 2006
    Messages:
    4,771
    Likes Received:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Did you try snail mailing or emailing them direct, to ask what is happening?
    Sorry I can't advise; I have never done a PDC, and don't intend too.
     
  13. Tropical food forest

    Tropical food forest Junior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2010
    Messages:
    116
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    in the greatest of internet traditions i say

    LOL

    :)

    good on you all you people practicing what you preach
    and succeeding!

    please record and publish MORE
    30 odd years on and im yet to be able to access much in published literature
    i NEED it
    sure i know its not about journal papers
    but its really needed as fuel to advance PC

    record your data people
    at least so others can analayse it in future

    I persoanly know PC works, seen it, made it, but how can i offer proof to someone on the other side of the world? esp in a govt dept.
     
  14. PeterFD

    PeterFD Junior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2009
    Messages:
    143
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Well …….. Fernando Pessoa, quite a tirade.

    But that’s OK, I know the forum prides itself in allowing the greatest “biodiversity” of ideas and opinions.

    I understand exactly what you’re saying. More generally, it’s referred to as the “Cult of the Personality”.

    Essentially, the key personalities are greater than the idea.

    If you are sincere in the force with which you have expressed your righteous indignation, this, tragically, merely serves to bring more sharply into focus how far this process has already progressed.
     
  15. Fernando Pessoa

    Fernando Pessoa Junior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2009
    Messages:
    316
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    They are the facts Peter,respect for the people that champion the idea and create the idea is the least you could show.

    To debunk you for what you are does not mean that there is a "cult of personality" in operation.

    You were trying to make a fuss when there was none,you were ridiculously attacking PRI and it's operators,insinuating that your need do have a minor house keeping matter resolved was more important than servicing the day to day needs of the institute ,it,s students,it's projects and god forbid the health and well being of the staff who have enormous workloads.What would you prefer the staff maintain aid projects like toilets and clean water or will they drop that and concentrate on banging out some new certificates and training manuals for teachers?

    Why would you make such a fuss your not a Teacher,I would hazard a guess that you have never done a P.D.C.
    Why would you use this forum to address this issue,rather than calling or emailing them?(no need to answer)
    The arrogance that you have is astounding and that is what has triggered my response,I am passionate about permaculture and people,health and education and I work daily to this end.
    So when i see your type of attitude which is moronic and counter productive to permaculture, I like to have a rant.
    It's always the end of the argument for me when some one throws in the Nazi defense or in your case the "Cult of Personality" defense it shows just the type of person you are.These types of comparisons only serve to highlight that you are totally without perspective you are.
    In my honest opinion you owe an apology,to the staff at PRI.
    Something like"I apologize, I didn't think".
    "I behaved like a child in a tantrum,when it's now clear to me that you are very busy".
    You might then want to ask if there is anything you could do to help or speed up this process,as you now understand that PRI is an independent NGO which has limited staff and resources at it's disposal.
    I am indignant yes,because I have deep connections with many Aid organisations and NGO's in many countries,and PRI is doing wonderful work in difficult situations,they should never come into question in regards to petty nonsense from petty people.
    best wishes
    Fernando Pessoa
     
  16. PeterFD

    PeterFD Junior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2009
    Messages:
    143
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    16
     
  17. Susan Girard

    Susan Girard Junior Member

    Joined:
    May 30, 2010
    Messages:
    58
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    ....and then there's Accredited Permaculture Training
     
  18. foggyforge

    foggyforge Junior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2008
    Messages:
    115
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Hear ,hear.
    About to finish-Diploma of Permaculture,at Eltham College, near Melbourne.
     
  19. pebble

    pebble Junior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2007
    Messages:
    2,721
    Likes Received:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    inland Otago, NZ
    Climate:
    Inland maritime/hot/dry/frosty
    Who does the accrediting?
     
  20. foggyforge

    foggyforge Junior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2008
    Messages:
    115
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    16

Share This Page

-->