looking for PDC online . . .

Discussion in 'Jobs, projects, courses, training, WWOOFing, volun' started by Roderic, Jun 25, 2012.

  1. Roderic

    Roderic Junior Member

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    Hello, I'm interested in taking the permaculture design course online. Are there any?

    Thanks. Rod
     
  2. NJNative

    NJNative Junior Member

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  3. pebble

    pebble Junior Member

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  4. Roderic

    Roderic Junior Member

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    Thanks for the links Native and Pebble. I looked at these possible choices for PDC online and none really looked like what I am looking for.

    The one from barking frog started last January.
    The one from permaculture projects wants $2500.
    The one from permaculture visions does not say who they are.

    I'm am aware that there might be one offered from Oregon State University this winter.

    It seems odd to me that online courses are not more common, considering permaculture is interested in a light carbon footprint i.e. the alternative to an online course is generally everybody driving to a location.
     
  5. NJNative

    NJNative Junior Member

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    Permaculture Visions seems to be primarily run by April Sampson-Kelly, who you can read about here:

    https://permacultureglobal.com/users/218-april-sampson-kelly

    and here:

    https://www.facebook.com/april.sampsonkelly/info

    (I swear I'm not being a creep, that was posted on the permaculture visions website.)

    I realize how expensive Wayne's class is, but he is actually one of the few certified PRI teachers in the states. Upon scanning any of the other certified teachers around the world, it seems that he is the only one who offers an online PDC, so it makes sense that his is so expensive, from a supply and demand perspective. I definitely don't think it costs that much to run the infrastructure of an online course, but it seems that both his and April's classes are very inclusive in terms of the information that you are given, and the personal level of education you get, just based on their websites and from the reports others have given.
     
  6. pebble

    pebble Junior Member

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    Certified by who NJ?
     
  7. Roderic

    Roderic Junior Member

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    Thanks for that info. Native. I'll give Kelly's course a good look.

    I can't condone 'permaculture projects' inflated price.
     
  8. Unmutual

    Unmutual Junior Member

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  9. NJNative

    NJNative Junior Member

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    ^^ What unmutual said. Here's some more info:

    "PRI Teacher

    With the exception of the ‘Member’ who has never taken a PDC, all of the above can apply to become a PRI PDC Teacher. PRI PDC Teachers are those who the PRI recognise, through a vetting board, as determined and competent to teach a full 72-hour Permaculture Design Certificate course that is based on, but not necessarily only constrained to, all the topics of Bill Mollison’s Designers’ Manual. Through sharing foundational permaculture principles and describing (and/or presenting) practical examples of these principles in action, the teacher will give students a healthy understanding of the interconnectedness of all elements in natural systems, and will give them the design tools to enable them to begin to work productively and sustainably with these systems in many climate zones and circumstances. The course will inspire and assist students to embark on their own life as permaculture system designers.

    PRI PDC Teachers also commit to focussing on the design science, and not including subjective spiritual/metaphysical/religious elements as topics. The reason these items are not included in the PDC curriculum is because they are “belief” based. Permaculture design education concerns itself with teaching good design based on strategies and techniques which are scientifically provable. A PRI PDC teacher avoids creating barriers to permaculture uptake by directly associating permaculture with a particular set of beliefs and instead promotes an inclusive, simple, universal life ethic of returning surplus into nature’s systems to promote the care of our earth and its inhabitants, with the goal of creating a new world that lives in harmony with all of nature."

    https://permacultureglobal.com/users/legend
     
  10. NJNative

    NJNative Junior Member

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    I very much agree, especially since it's likely just him giving you the info, and you learning it all on your own, with maybe some feedback on any questions you had and your final project. I don't know, maybe there's more to it that makes it worth it, but since you can get what seems like the same exact thing for half the price from P.V., I think I'll go that route as well since it will be my first class. I'm sure I'll take other more "official" classes eventually.
     
  11. pebble

    pebble Junior Member

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    It does look like more than just the 72 hour PDC though.
     
  12. Roderic

    Roderic Junior Member

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    To be as clear, as clear as I can be about where I'm coming from: I've farmed and landscaped professionally for 40 years (i.e. managed the farming for several years on a 20,000 acre organic cattle ranch; managed a 40 acre commercial, organic market garden; 5 years running a small scale commercial organic dairy farm; 20 years running my own landscaping company) always with a passion and mentoring with some amazing people; but never 'official' permaculture people. When I read Bill Mollison's book my stance is "yes, I know that! Well said."

    Taking a course is something I might do because: a) maybe I can share some of what I've learned; b)maybe learn some more; and c) I can have the letters behind my name, because that is what most people accept as having any weight.

    There seems to be no structure to get these letters, badges, whatever, except pay the money and do the time.

    Which I would do because I value Bill's vision and hopefully have a teacher who does so too.
     
  13. Ludi

    Ludi Junior Member

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    I think the PDC is supposed to follow the curriculum developed by Bill Mollison.
     
  14. NJNative

    NJNative Junior Member

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    That's what the PRI PDC Teacher stamp is supposed to be eventually, giving real weight to your title because the teacher who gave it to you was vetted by the PRI as qualified and knowledgeable. Right now, I think it's just a matter of people going through the process and getting certified, which shouldn't be too hard for most, except obviously those who don't really know what they're teaching or are also set on teaching metaphysics or spirituality. Currently, there's 21 certified PRI teachers around the world, which is actually a good amount I think, but hopefully that number will greatly increase in the coming years, making it easier to find someone who is "legit". Also, hopefully for those who have already taken a PDC from someone who is not "legit", those teachers will get certified eventually, and then most people will get the same credit for their education as those who take a class from a currently certified PRI teacher. It's a very new thing, but we're slowly working on becoming more and more official, and in some cases even academic (the merits or lack there of I won't go into here).
     
  15. betr2garden

    betr2garden Junior Member

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    Hi Everyone, I am not new to Permaculture but am new to this forum (don't know why I haven't tied myself to the source of my lifelong interest before, but here I am now!)

    I had no idea so few teachers had been certified across the world. Is there a list I can go? I have waited for 30 years to attend an in house PDC, at the feet of the Master, but have been unable to due to caring for family members with medical issues as well as the financial impediment of course cost, travel, accomodation, etc, etc. At least I've been able to manage to buy all the books and actually did a local short course this year. I have only just decided to pursue an on-line option as my chances of ever getting to do a PDC are diminishing with further medical issues and expenses (hubby this time).

    Of course if I did an online PDC I would want it to be 'blessed by Bill' even if a face-to-face course would provide a preferable learning environment.

    I'd appreciate any info you can give.
    Kerri
     
  16. deee

    deee Junior Member

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    Hi Kerri,
    please don't be put off doing a good, affordable, local PDC just because the teacher doesn't have the PRI certification. Word of mouth is an excellent guide. I teach PDCs in Western Sydney. Most of my students struggle to pay for courses. I'm not certified: I'd like to be, but I simply can't afford it at the moment. I was taught by Rosemary Morrow, an outstanding permaculturist, recognised in many countries for her work and her teaching. To my knowledge, she's not certified either. I teach her course, based on her notes. I was supervised by Rowe before I started teaching on my own. I'm also a scientist with a well-published career in evidence-based medicine, so I'm not likely to teach metaphysical or mystic fluff as science, although I do have students who bring their beliefs to the table - this is part and parcel of adult learning. For me, registering is a choice between teaching more people permaculture NOW at a reduced cost, or waiting longer, charging more and teaching less. Its a no brainer for me.

    An on-line PDC is a great option, but nothing beats a PDC with time and space for lots of discussion with other students, especially if you are well read to start with. Find a local permaculture group and ask around.
    Danielle
     
  17. Unmutual

    Unmutual Junior Member

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    Ah, the author of The Earth Users Guide To Permaculture, nice having her as a teacher(and tell her that she wrote an excellent book)!

    Bill Mollison wanted permaculture to spread like this: He would teach people Permaculture, those people would go out and teach Permaculture, and then those people would go out and teach Permaculture. In this way it would spread geometrically. PRI certification is not part of this, but I do see the reason in having it. I just don't think either system is perfect. However, if the teacher can show their Permaculture Design Certificate, then they can teach the class and hand out PDCs of their own.
     
  18. betr2garden

    betr2garden Junior Member

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    I've just spent hours on the Permaculture Global Network. Wow! What a fantastic site to bring us all together and to amass knowledge of the who, the what and the where of Permaculture! Didn't answer my questions, but raised a few more so I don't get stale.

    I was wondering about teachers who have Certificate and Diploma courses in Permaculture. Are they excluded from PRI registration (unless they also have PDC) as the 'mainstream' course curriculum may not have been approved by PRI (or don't follow the same guidelines as PDC)???

    If I was able to afford a PDC course, I really like the idea of getting my hands dirty. The reason that I think on-line will get me through is that, as far as I can see, most 72hour PDC courses are jam packed with info and there would be little time for 'getting out in the garden'. I know my husband and I were tragically surprised at a recent Intro course that we sat in a dark mouldy room and hardly got outdoors at all (but we couldn't have possibly got through all the theory if otherwise).
     
  19. eco4560

    eco4560 New Member

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    The PDC is supposed to be 72 hours of THEORY - so it is usual to not get your hands dirty. Sometimes teachers will demonstrate principles in the great outdoors, but if you spent half a day making a garden bed that would be heal a days theory you missed out on. My teacher lets students come work for a day a week at his place after the course so they can get those practical skills, or you can do an internship.

    At to teachers - it's caveat emptor. There are good non-registered teachers and courses, but you need to ask some questions. Like who taught them and what curriculum they use and whether you can contact a former student, or look at a property they have designed.
     
  20. deee

    deee Junior Member

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    You really should get your hands dirty on a PDC, otherwise its all a bit abstract. I teach in a garden. Somedays its a bit chilly, but if I want to talk about weed succession, we look at it happening in front of us. If I want to show nitrogen fixing nodules, I dig up some clover. Rowe Morrow's course includes a permablitz, half a day where you blitz a garden (Rowe often uses a student's garden, I like to use a community space). Students individually design the space, reach consensus, then put in a herb spiral, pond and vegie garden. Its a great learning experience: it gives students confidence, illustrates problem solving and group dynamics, lets them practice their new site analysis and design skills and makes a new, productive garden. Its worth far more than half a day's theory! You should also visit a few gardens: this a really helpful way to picture permaculture in action and is great for visual learners. There really is time for all this in a PDC!
    Danielle
     

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