Locked threads

Discussion in 'The big picture' started by eco4560, Aug 13, 2012.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. zvall

    zvall Junior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2012
    Messages:
    78
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    ahhh yeah, the 'education' system. Have you read any of John Taylor Gatto's books and articles about this, and how this so-called education system was devised and imposed on millions of children by force and where they HAVE to attend these places (i HATED school by the way). And of course this is what they have done with indigenous peoples children --separating them from their loved ones, and their communitites and traditions. So this is obvious isn't it---the indoctrination of children as soon as they can walk.
    Like I said, I hated school with a passion. I was a very inquisitive lively child full of life, but the very thought of school the next day, or when sunday night came about would make me depressed---everything about it.
    As a little child I had had a magical sense of nature. One day I was making a little 'fairy garden' in the garden made out of twigs, acorn shells, stones etc, and my grandpa found me and then introduced me to gardening lol. ...so to cut long story short. I grew up quick in me head cause my homie friends were bout 3 years older than me so when i got to 10 I was --in my head about 13, and they all smoked so to fit in (conformity sucks dont it) I began smokin at TEN years old!! So that---school, peer pressure, parental influence, cultural influence were doing their job and fukin that kid up!!

    From being that magically-minded nature lovin kid I became utterly dulled to nature, and would throw litter at it. my grandpa died when I was 11 and I never did any more gardening, was getting a sadistic streak, and had a BIG obsession with big cities. Then at 15 I actually go and live in a big city--London, and its there that some hippies turn me onto LSD and all that lost magic I had felt for nature came back
     
  2. gardenlen

    gardenlen Group for banned users

    Joined:
    May 14, 2004
    Messages:
    3,464
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    yep zvall,

    i too hated school but attend i had to 8 years of primary school only to fail scholarship, then to high school sub-junior level aka grade 9 now, after 1st term of junior aka grade 10 now me dad dragged me outa the system, well as i was not good at primary, secondry was hopeless. and had me help him mow lawns, but anyway i did well once i got into the work force needed if one had any hope of buying a home for his own family the rest is history. anyway if i wagged primary i might have been sent to one of those catholic orphanges threatened.

    len
     
  3. gardenlen

    gardenlen Group for banned users

    Joined:
    May 14, 2004
    Messages:
    3,464
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    yep ok if something occurs again maybe i'll make better note, was only there long enough to hear her say that. anyhow for the rest i reckon we are kept in the dark maybe they don't want their interpretation of history sullied they may have to rewrite it.

    yep all great stories.

    len
     
  4. zvall

    zvall Junior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2012
    Messages:
    78
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    my 'spirituality' talk is then same as that. it INCLUDES talk about 'education for sure. But like gettin into trouble questioning established religion, you can also questioning so-called education. Some people will claim it was the 'best years of their lives' and that we need it for 'progress' etc. That is fine and is their view, but they should not be able to shut me up because of my view--both my personal experiences and also the research I present to show 'education' is not for the benefit of the child and adult in a deep way. If so WHY are kids threatend to go, and their parents are threatened if their kids don't turn up regularly--facing fines and even imprisonment.
     
  5. gardenlen

    gardenlen Group for banned users

    Joined:
    May 14, 2004
    Messages:
    3,464
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    might be better understanding if folk did question main stream religion's and their doctrines, and instead also sought the truth. as for going to school the goal posts tell us if we want to own anything in our own individual right, ie.,. house, car etc.,. be able to fend for our families in our own right then some education is needed, even if at a later age/stage in life. taking away from families in the sense of fines and stopping welfare is only going to cause more division that what we already have, as the have not's feel the haves are messing in their lives to no end. but this is the gov' at work they are not representative of the people, like happened back towards the 40's.

    teh ideal i see is we should be living in harmony side by side in the community, this would make it more difficult for some red tape egg head to single people out. but there is no guarantees in life it all takes working together for a common cause, that is everybody has the same opportunities. whilst ever we are so secularised this type of gov' driven segregation will continue, it happens in one form or another throughout aussie communities. there are lots of yuppie types quiet comfy with lots of plastic money the asset rich and cash strapped set, who feel they would be advantaged if their tax dollar did not go to welfare. though the modest lifestyle we have is the end result of over 50 years of work paying top taxes, our health and dental help is pitiful, the way it is going i could very well lose every tooth in my head, and if i need to go to hospital almost forget it outside of an emergency, like very many hidden in the plush lifestyles of others in their suburbs, i have been on a prostrate list for 5 years now a friend of mine was on it for 8 years and a couple weeks before he took it to his grave they gave him a life time supply of kimbies. this is called health care, you can see the imbalance out there you have a prostrate issue you live with it 24/7.

    our system for us who can afford little in a country that is the 5th most charitable country outside its borders has all but collapsed. gets little air time like i mention what an anthropologist says on tv and it got more attention than when i mention health issues.

    so zvall whilst we remain secular and divided we are at the mercy of the gov' the only light might be that those who think they are insulated from our hard ships down at this level, could very well join us yelling ans screaming no doubt but join us they will.

    our generations and those following must look forward and move on, the migrants who came and settled our country my forefathers are not an enemy anymore than what i am, the aus' gov' of the day lied to these people as they needed people to destroy the habitat and grow food, those migrants can't be sure of the pomme one's or the irish etc.,. but the europeans had to pay for their 20 acres picked from a grid map sight unseen. the were told that they would be living in established agri' communities, and had no knowledge of what they may encounter with aboriginals and wildlife, and both sides suffered and both sides had losses.

    i watch and join in lots of threads i get judged often probably as many others do, and they may not like it but what they worship drives them, the false doctrines of men whether religious or scientific drive them, seemingly without compassion as the needy in australia get left further and further behind.

    the saying "united we stand - divided we fall" for the first time in my life has never ever been so evident as it is now. if the dane's can look after their people who need it why then can't we?

    forgot to mention very very many of all immigrants were illiterate so much so i have records of documents on my family tree that show this persons verified X or that persons verified cross as legal signatures. so add in they barely knew their own language then they had to understand what someone talking english was saying, very hard indeed.

    take care (i hesitate to say my friend as i have been chipped by others for so doing, they simply said we have never met personally so i am not yet your friend, this might be as personal as it gets?? silly hey that's secularism)

    len
     
  6. zvall

    zvall Junior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2012
    Messages:
    78
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    yeah 'illiterate' becomes a problem' when literacy is imposed on everyone. I am sure it wasn't a problem for pre-literate peoples! I learned to read quite easily IF I remember right (probs got it wrong lol). What I had a major problem with was numbers, math, and still do but I dont care. I am glad in a way. We had--in primary school--a teacher called Miss Mole
    [​IMG] In them days kids wore short pants, and we had to do maths homework and if we got sums wrong had to go to her desk and she would slap the backs of your legs, and it HURT!! Now she would be done for assault lol, but it sure did not make me friendly towards numbers, and I dont think its the wise way to teach kids neither--about anything. Like Gatto says, parents just hand over their kids to complete strangers for most of the week and then wonder why they become screwed up. You wouldn't do that with your CAR!!

    The --this world is insane, and I like to explore about it with others, and the only way we can--I feel--is in freedom. We have to feel our way into this complete insanity and try and understand whats going on, because we are part of it whether we like it or not.

    An overview of what I think is going on. There are powers that be that literally want us to think we are robots, and for us to believe we live in dead meaningless nature. In this way they can manipulate us better to work industriously for the State. So to be really radical is to explore ways to undermine what they are wanting. To do this we have to seriously (with a sense of humour too) examine the myths/stories/narratives our ancestors have lived through, and we live. it is like fish suddenly becomes aware of the water they are swimming in.
     
  7. gardenlen

    gardenlen Group for banned users

    Joined:
    May 14, 2004
    Messages:
    3,464
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    yes teh spinster type teacher, almost a kid hater. we had discipline at school simple if one did not what the cane used on their open hand then we behaved, but keeping us back after class did not help our math, nor did double homework, but we moved on found our niche.

    if we are going to use history we need to sue it all so that mistakes may not be made again (out of our hands in the gov' hands as we stand divided), no good any of us picking the part of history that suits them, but then we must be in move on mode.

    len
     
  8. zvall

    zvall Junior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2012
    Messages:
    78
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    "Who controls the past, controls the future; who controls the present, controls the past."
     
  9. Grasshopper

    Grasshopper Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2010
    Messages:
    1,016
    Likes Received:
    9
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Seems a little confusing do you want the government out of your life or in it.
    Healthcare and welfare you want it in, red tape, overseas aide, the environment and reconciliation,you want it out.
    I think you will find most of the Australians on this site want more spent on healthcare and welfare and are pretty happy with more spent on OS aide and want Government intervention on the environment and action towards reconciliation and don't mind red tape when it is protecting the environment or workers rights.
    Its not really a secular or non secular position,fear or love of a bigger government is more of a political interpretation.

    Is your economic position partially due to tithing to the church?
    Tithing is a far greater economic impact than the carbon tax.
     
  10. Grahame

    Grahame Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2008
    Messages:
    2,215
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Be aware of your thoughts, they become words
    Be aware of your words, they become actions
    Be aware of your actions, they become habits
    Be aware of your habits, they become your destiny
    Be the creator of your own destiny.
     
  11. gardenlen

    gardenlen Group for banned users

    Joined:
    May 14, 2004
    Messages:
    3,464
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    what grahame says in a way;

    the only reason those who controlled the past now control our future with only their ego's in play is that we became a divided community from that multi racial suburb of the 40's 50's you can see by practicality they have divided us, and they seek to divide us even more constitutionally, and we have no one we can trust to re-write the constitution should those in favour of not having that crown protection win their cause. the qld const' was re-written in 2001 and is being used in law and legislation making but has never been through the process of plebiscites.

    we need a gov' "of the people; for the people; by the people", we have power and glory seekers.

    dunno grasshopper,

    economic position is not affected by tithe, as our society is so secular it is the economics of supporting all sorts of sport having the impact, and besides in the book i follow it says nothing of having to pay tithe and probably more so if you are poor, they should be collecting for the poor and directly distributing. the things you say come from man driven doctrine which has no truth in it. like a lady in a barber shop all in there were chatting freely all topics on the plate like any healthy community, one lady went for pilgrimage to the centre of religion and came back discussed with what she saw and is no longer in that church, so be careful casting that net of deceit to label others who differ from you, that just adds more division.

    our gov' is secular driven so we will always be divided.

    len
     
  12. ecodharmamark

    ecodharmamark Junior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2005
    Messages:
    2,922
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    0
    G'day Len

    Are you suggesting 'they' (presumedly the Federal Government) are contemplating a Federal constitutional amendment? If so, could you please provide a reference to the proposed change/s?

    Actually, prior to the enactment of the Constitution of Queensland 2001, there was no 'constitution', per se:

    Before the Constitution of Queensland 2001, Queensland did not have one constitutional document that outlined the State's constitutional arrangements. Matters of constitutional significance were contained in several Acts of Parliament, as well as throughout various other laws and documents.

    Source: QLD Government (2012) System of Government

    As for 'has never been through the process of plebiscites', true. There was no plebiscite (syn. referendum). Since around the time of Federation, QLD'ers have only ever voted at seven State referendums:

    Federation, 1899

    Religious Instruction, 1910

    Abolition of the Legislative Council, 1917

    Control or Prohibition of Liquor, 1920

    Control or Prohibition of Liquor, 1923

    Extension of Parliamentary terms from three to four years, 1991

    Daylight savings referendum, 1992.


    Source: Electoral Commission QLD (2010) Referendums

    However, and as with all changes to legislation (at any level of government), people always have an opportunity to be part of this process: Either in person, by way of making a submission; or by proxy, by way of locally-elected members of parliament, for example:

    After widespread community consultation, debate and analysis, the Constitution of Queensland 2001 and the Parliament of Queensland Act 2001 started operating on Queensland Day, 6 June 2002.

    Source: QLD Government (2012) System of Government

    I couldn't agree more, and here's my suggestion for how to do it:

    Bookchin (1991) Libertarian Municipalism: An Overview


    What do you suggest?

    What has secularism got to do with division? What else would you suggest, a theocratic state? If so, under which god? Yours, or any one of the other thousands' available?

    Cheerio, Markos
     
  13. gardenlen

    gardenlen Group for banned users

    Joined:
    May 14, 2004
    Messages:
    3,464
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    guess you can fog anything i say with another question, that's ok, we have a secular gov' that aligns with odd bedfellows simply so you can't say we represent any other ethic. and yes once they dump that union jack they will forward a constitution that we played no part if forming so they cannot be trusted. i always thought we had a state constitution of 1900 something. we need to be united with honest forbearing leaders not the riff raff we have. and this post simply shows how divided we are as a community.

    maybe we need to see what countries like denmark do and see how they achieve existing in this world but still be able to care for their people. what we're doing is obviously not now working and getting worse.

    and even if the state did not have a constituion as such there still should have been involvement by the peoples as to its structure, herself that was voted out did at one stage talk of introducing a plebiscite into the next state election which has now been run on politics alone but suppose she saw she was a cooked goose so why bother making it worse. her staged flood visit pictures were supposed to save her neck but this time the masses saw through all that.

    there is but one GOD for me. so i'll leave that with your obvious lack of knowledge and wisdom in that area. maybe some could ask their grandparents or great grandparents what life was before secularisation.

    len
     
  14. ecodharmamark

    ecodharmamark Junior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2005
    Messages:
    2,922
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    0
    G'day Len

    Do you mean we have a secular parliament? If so, that is indeed enshrined in Sec 116 of the Australian Constitution. However, I suspect you are referring to the present Federal Government, the leader of which is an atheist. Is that what you mean by 'we have a secular government'? And who are these
    'odd bedfellows'? The Greens? Or maybe the cross-bencher/independents? Who mentioned anything about an 'ethic'? Really, Len, I'm trying my hardest to have a conversation here, but I'm struggling to understand exactly what it is that you are trying to convey.

    Concerning the Australian Constitution: In my opinion, the sooner we scrap it the better. For the most part, it is an anachronistic blight on the post-modern, multi-cultural secular state that we are.

    Denmark? Nice county; nice people (or at least, the many Danes that I have had the pleasure of meeting have been). Now, if we are talking about Danish Constitutional matters, then I would suggest theirs is even more of an anachronism than ours. However, if we are talking about the Danish Goverment, then in terms of progressive socialism, they leave us for dead. You can check out the CVs of the current government members here.

    Um, my previous post should have addressed this topic. However, if there is something more specific you'd like to cover, I'd by more than happy to have a crack at it.

    Honestly, I'm very happy for you. However, I'm still a little in the dark as to which one it is. For example, is it the all-seeing, all-knowing, fire-and-brimstone breathing version from say, the Old Testament? Dawkins has this to say of that particular God:

    The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.

    If it is that one, then it's the same one that scared the crap out of me in Sunday school, aged four. And it is almost certainly the same one that set me on the path to atheism soon after.

    To the best of my knowledge, my grandparents (and great grandparents) were not overtly religious. However, great uncle Willy was a Deacon. But my grandfather said (according to my father), that he only ever took on that role because it was 'easy work'.

    Cheerio, Markos
     
  15. gardenlen

    gardenlen Group for banned users

    Joined:
    May 14, 2004
    Messages:
    3,464
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    yep ok you are pretty much what one expect out of the man derived doctrines, the god you mention is not the one we aspire to but you are otherwise indoctrinated as your answers can reflect i can only remember the brigalow corporation and the advent of the 2001 constitution did with the help of constitutional lawyers and not involving the people. anyhow i certainly don't remember the vote.

    anyhow you are fixated on what i don't know modern pollies are noway near as ethical as those in the past, a past where we were not a secular country or not as, when one could walk the streets as a kid and not get molested, where suburb's were safe for all.

    len
     
  16. ecodharmamark

    ecodharmamark Junior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2005
    Messages:
    2,922
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    0
    G'day Len

    Even though we each have a very different view of the past (and the present, as it would often seem), I strongly suspect that we both share a common vision for the future: One where all people can live in peace and harmony. While we might not both be on the same path toward achieving this objective, I'm happy to give you a friendly wave or handshake on the occasions when our paths do cross, and probably leave it at that.

    With a genuine cheerio to you, Mark
     
  17. gardenlen

    gardenlen Group for banned users

    Joined:
    May 14, 2004
    Messages:
    3,464
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    yes mark,

    but how do we get there in a secular community that has ethics that if not dubious so varied no one can connect with them.

    teh reason i don't discuss my beliefs is that others seem to revel in tearing into people like me and due to the diversity of doctrines (all coming back to one now) they seek their research from where it fits best and make certain judgements that cloud any wisdom they may get or lnowledge gained. i too went to sunday school in the mid 40's to late 60's first as a lutheran then as a mormon, got married became a catholic as wife wanted, left there and became athiest maybe did some fence sitting in that role, but all was not working so then at around 40 age i learnt we were being taught non-truths by the religions. what i see would unite us all but never likely to happen, we can't expect immigrants to come here and respect our what? if we went to their countries we would have to respect their doctrines.

    i don't reckon i'll see my vision of that united suburb i was born into, anymore than you will see the fruition of your hopes.

    anyhow we can only hope not much to cling to

    len
     
  18. ecodharmamark

    ecodharmamark Junior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2005
    Messages:
    2,922
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    0
  19. zvall

    zvall Junior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2012
    Messages:
    78
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I think I may have mentioned somewhere above that I had early psychedelic experience when I was 15. What LSD did for me was undo what I--with hindsight--understand is what culture and 'education' based on scientific materialism does to children---DULLS THEM. And that is what happened to me regarding this wonder-full natural world. I instead had become obsessed with big cities----cities which SQUASH nature, and suck all the resources from the surrounding natural land to feed it mode of operation.

    These life-changing experiences inspired my search for what it all meant, and one book I found years later which greatly turned me onto looking closer at mythologies was titled The Sacred Mushroom and the Cross, by John M.Allegro I hadn't realized before reading tyhis book how mythologies were composed in layers, and the writers used all forms of literary devices, and that the core meaning was only for the eyes of the initiates who could understand these techniques.

    WE are living in a same scenario where we are given superficial knowledge via 'education' and mass media, and politics whilst more hidden is an agenda that the elite can understand, and those who are waking up to what is going on. I am talking about the OCCULT elite. 'Occult' means 'hidden'.

    Do you remember how President W Bush AND his 'opposition' for the seat of gaining the presidency, Kerry BOTH admitted to having been initiated in the Skull and Bones secret society? There is a clue, and another one is that most of the presidents of the US have been Freemasons. These societies are 'hidden, ie., OCCULT and they swear secret oaths of allegiance to their fellow members, etc.

    When 9/11 happened, I first of all was dragged into believing the official story, but have learned since that it is a false flag and those behind it are this occult elite! Not only are the 'mundane' clues contradicting the official version, but as well as that there is occult signatures all over the event too. So this is what I mean about layers of meaning.

    I have not studied about Australia. I very well know the persecution of the original inhabitants--the Australian Aboriginees, and I also know there is that terrible 'Fracking' going on there (actually it is going on most places now) which threatens the very waters of this Earth. In other words the powers that be do not care about indigenous peoples, and they do not care about the Web of Life. they think themselves gods, and are obsessed with 'profit'. Capitalism and the occult are entwined.

    I thought I would do a search about this occult elite to do with Australia and found this video which I have only begun to view
    Occult Sydney (1/14). Australian Illuminati, NWO, New world order, Freemason

    I think it is very important when exploring the whys and wherefores of our past, present and future to be aware of what is being hidden from us. EVEN if you do not trust this information and dismiss it as "conspiracy theory", I recommend you do not conform with the dismissive attitude of the debunkers but learn about it yourself and make your OWN mind up
     
  20. mouseinthehouse

    mouseinthehouse Junior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2012
    Messages:
    782
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I don't recognise the country that Len describes? Maybe I am living in an Australia in a parallel universe?

    What he (ecodharmamark) says. :bow:
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

-->