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Discussion in 'The big picture' started by eco4560, Aug 13, 2012.

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  1. pebble

    pebble Junior Member

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    The thread was locked, but to be fair, we don't actually know why. The conversation isn't even close to some of the harsher debates we've had here. A mystery.

    I do take your point S.O.P about talking about permaculture though. Maybe we should start some more pragmatic threads. Although I must admit I'm hanging out at Permies this week 'cos Geoff Lawton has been answering questions there. Maybe we need to organise something like that.
     
  2. gardenlen

    gardenlen Group for banned users

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    just rting to determine this net that has been cast called christianity, what events happened between those who claim christian affiliation and our aboriginals, people i know would never tolerate or support any of what happened in teh past, much the same happened with teh settlement of the USA, one might wonder with better communication that we have nowadays what might not happen. we do need to come together as an australian nation change the name if they wish to whatever so long as we move on and work together.

    even the crusaders who went on bloody missions to quell teh moslem's where more a political army or an army of religion they certainly do not represent christianity that i know to me.

    you point to know evidence what is different in most of the sciences ans evolution, there is no evidence just hypotheses and theory, every so often they change their dating method, manipulate the parameters and add a few more noughts into the equation, if that is what they want to believe so be it.

    anyway no wonder others then say that christians are dangerous when they see how the name has been used in the past, and maybe to some extent out there now.

    for the people i know they are neither blood thirsty nor dangerous

    len
     
  3. zvall

    zvall Junior Member

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    I am not saying your Christian friends are bloodthirsty or dangerous, I don't know them :) But I think that if we are taking seriously the questioning about spirituality that this means what it says, and adults we must accept challenges to our accepted cherished beliefs AND know that we also have the freedom to challenge also.

    I mean, I have said that I think the Jesus myth (and just calling it 'myth' can upset some Christians who believe it is historical truth) is deeply connected with a mind-altering mushroom cult, and the book that goes into this is the very book which sparked my interest in mythologies and questioning all belief systems
     
  4. gardenlen

    gardenlen Group for banned users

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    ok zvall.

    the net used is cast wide and i can assure trawls people who have nothing what so ever to do with what you allude to, the ones i know live simple lives, share their produce whatever, we don't try to convert, we do believe what our history book teh bible says, it says nothing about mushrooms or other plants sued for similar.

    did see on SBS or ABC a young lady aboriginal anthropologist explaining that the aboriginal people could not have been here more that about 5k years ago, never heard of any follow up or from her again either. then there are those of the climate change set telling the poor starving people in africa that the poor in our affluent countries are causing their climate pains. we can only win these things with unity surely? just wonder if others may think that with modern communications and journalism would things like the stolen generation happen again, for those i know definitely not. so then it appears we are judged by the actions of someone in the past a 100 or so years ago, is that fare? should a son or daughter be punished for a crime their parents did?

    when the net is cast so far wide what then of us who had nothing to do with mushrooms or someone else's demise of suffering. in the end as things are looking if we don't work under the name of our nation together what then?

    might say my early years were spent an an army village west of brissy, there we lived as a community, no near by shops or hotels if i can say, with all types of cultures aboriginal's who had come back fro the war, italian's, greek's, german's russian's all nations who were australians standing back to back, we conquered then together and grew from there. we went to a sattelite housing commission suburb all the same people, no street fights no abuse of anyone, but since then someone has lit the fire of hate and we are falling apart as a nation. we hardly saw the police around our suburb, one day as i was walking from school (no molesters then) the police car stopped and asked direction to the house next door they then gave me a ride home, my poor mother was beside herself that the neighbours might see me alighting from a police car, shock horror. she said to never do that again that was when we were taught at school that the police were our friends.

    what do we do i dunno the cancer is now too deep, all we here can do is pray, that is our way. they do need to have us divided, as united we stand divided we fall and fall we are.

    len
     
  5. zvall

    zvall Junior Member

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    I think that's because it was HAD tyo be a false peace. You cannot--simply cannot have the evil that's been done to indigenous people just kinda forgotten and have a peacful little surburbia. it doesn't work like that. It is all here (points to bodymind'--I am not different from the Aborigine, the Native American, etc. We are all humans. What is happening to the species being made extinct, and those whose habitats are being destroyed is also happening to us, and although there are sensitive people who feel this, it is very easy to feel with magic mushrooms or other mind-altering vegetations because you regain feeling which has been dulled

    Again people can feel offended if you say people are dulled. But I am afraid it is what is happening.
     
  6. gardenlen

    gardenlen Group for banned users

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    so we are judged forever guilty of something we had nothing what so ever to do with? what was wrong with promoting a peaceful cohabitation together?

    we don't use any mind dulling anything, so where do we fit in your theory?

    just for me a friend of mine stopped when hailed by a new neighbour dare i say of aboriginal descent he was out o fuel, friend went and got fuel for him and refused money for the deed, the chap then indicated he found it hard getting firewood for his outside BBQ, i was then cutting trees up felled ones, for firewood for my friend and another so i then started creating fire wood for our new neighbour, which my friend will deliver to him as i don't think he owns a trailer or the like, neither do is so i rely on others in a sense for those tasks. this is the rural way not driven by distrust now found in the cities. i went and cut up some shrubs for a new neighbour who came and asked, his nationality played no part, so really the seeds of a more positive and peaceful life are there.

    what would have been wrong with that peaceful suburb of the late 40's into the 60's burgeoning? like other things that come at us does some one have a secret agenda to keep us divided?

    we are against habitat and species destruction tried talking about it in these forums but there is little support for us.

    anyhow take care

    len
     
  7. S.O.P

    S.O.P Moderator

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    Can you link some threads? Or bring across some gems?
     
  8. zvall

    zvall Junior Member

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    Sorry. Last thing I want to do is make anyone feel guilty or bad about themself. In fact I think that is what the patriarchal myths do. they straightaway blame us, and this degrades us, and they also degrade nature, and this is divide and control. So I am against all that. Let me explain better. what is happened to nature, and other species, and people that live more sustainably with nature---all this suffering is part of us even if we deny it. what is happening to nature really is part of the massive depression people feel because we ARE nature
     
  9. gardenlen

    gardenlen Group for banned users

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    g'day zvall,

    but our issues are driven by those who are wanting to sue past gov' actions, of which generations from about 1940 onward had no say in, in those days you either voted this party or that party. they had only radio to listen to and newspapers to read, i can't say for sure that the actions of gov' where posted in print, all that journo's printed was what the gov' told them. bet they didn't tell them all.

    and those myths you mention have nothing to do with the truth that i read from our book.

    we cannot discriminate by saying some are more sustainable with nature, that will keep division alive, when i was young i had to attend school, all in that suburb rode the same trains and buses, walked the same streets, copped the same discipline at home and school. we who lived off local farm food farms no bigger than dunno 20 or so acres who grew rotated multiple crops, milk that came fresh from the cow and fresh eggs, that all in that suburb could afford to buy. we all lived in the same simple style of home with the same sized yards.

    i did not ask for the destruction of the habitat for which we all now must pay a hefty price under the feel good flag.

    i feel the same depression not in a physical way but concern for us all, this comes from wisdom i derive from my belief.

    but whilst we remain divided we will fall.

    len
     
  10. ecodharmamark

    ecodharmamark Junior Member

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    G'day Len

    I'm not surprised. Anyone claiming to be an anthropologist while simultaneously holding the above view would be in direct breech of Section 4.2 of the Australian Anthropological Society Code of Ethics:

    Anthropologists should maintain integrity in the recording and presentation of anthropological data, and should not discredit the profession of anthropology by knowingly colouring or falsifying observations or interpretations, or making exaggerated or ill-founded assertions, in their professional writings, as expert witnesses, or as authors of any other form of reportage related to their work.

    It is a well established scientific fact that Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people have inhabited the land we now call Australia for at least 50,000 years.

    I realise that the above fact may very well contradict your own world view; it may even offend you. However, I remind you that for many people (myself included) the concept of Young Earth Creationism, as espoused by religious groups such as the Seventh-day Adventists, is equally offensive.

    But, and as is always the case, I respect your right to hold the above view, and trust that this right will be reciprocated.

    Cheerio, Markos
     
  11. gardenlen

    gardenlen Group for banned users

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    still amazes me how people make a judgement of me then get very defensive should i look cutting across their view/belief, the person said what she said why i don't know maybe you should be discussing with her the ethics of the science.

    and just in case we are not seventh day adventists as you seem to be aware of. hope that ends any judgement that way enclined.

    len
     
  12. ecodharmamark

    ecodharmamark Junior Member

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    G'day Len

    I would, if only I could find a reference to her claimed statement. Don't suppose you have one? I've spent that past hour searching both the SBS and ABC websites, and I cannot find it.

    Cheerio, Markos
     
  13. gardenlen

    gardenlen Group for banned users

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    mmm can't help you there,

    supppose unless the lawn needs mowing it might keep you occupied otherwise?

    me i am flappless when others cross what i believe i do at time make defending sort of statements but i don't go digging up what is put up as an ethical law as a defense.

    like the saying says mark i am the messenger, like it or not.

    len
     
  14. ecodharmamark

    ecodharmamark Junior Member

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    G'day Len

    That's unfortunate.

    Nah, got rid of that (the 'lawn') over ten years ago. However, did cut a tonne of firewood this morning. And have spent the rest of the day (sans the hour spent looking for that supposed anthropologist) working on the thesis. Reckon I'm about due for a drink right now. And considering that I just picked up a box of local (organic) red last night, I shall not have to wait too long.

    Never fear, Len. I'm a pacifist, I'll not 'shoot' you. Your 'messages' are most welcome, anytime.

    Cheerio, and I truly do hope that you have a great Saturday night, Len. I know I will, Markos
     
  15. gardenlen

    gardenlen Group for banned users

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    mmm supposed mark?

    not my style, to make up story, have no reason to do so, don't need an ego boost or my name in lights, i see lots and lots of different things which if i can be honest support the way i believe and what i think and do, all in the sense and common sense arena.

    so anyway enough said well got no more to add just a bit of defense of my character, there have been things said by others that cut a swathe through what i believe but no rise out of this bloke still chatting to that person as far as i know too.

    a tad more insight into what i have heard, about the egyptians and carasons habitating our east coast, about bush hidded pyramids down kempsey way, about a state premier completely demolishing a pyramid on private property because the land owner told everyone, and the most modern a bloke stumbled upon some cave drawing in an out of the way beach up north depicted portuguese or spanish sailors and their ships, that site now out of bounds and the finder under a severe gag order, another land holder found cave full of egyptian artifacts and told all he is under same gag order and the archives have his find tucked away, oh! that pyramid was shipped out to see and dumped stone at a time. yep also heard of another cave find but this time complete secrecy by discoverer and the cave is sealed from prying eyes.

    oh nearly forgot a painter went to do a huge paint job west to a regional town on the great divide and the stockhand aboriginal showed him this cave that teh boss told him to never go to or tell anyone it is full of cave art depicting those spanish and portuguese sailors etc.,.

    this will have to be a believe it or not, good story but hey?

    but anyway bigger things on my mind. sad that we all not just the poor will suffer under this science driven carbon tax industry.

    take care

    len
     
  16. Grasshopper

    Grasshopper Senior Member

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    Who do you think issues these gag orders?
     
  17. S.O.P

    S.O.P Moderator

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    Besides the believability of Aboriginals seeing Spanish/Portuguese ships, the pyramid ones were new. They took one out to sea, block by block? Any sources existing on Internet?
     
  18. gardenlen

    gardenlen Group for banned users

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    grasshopper and sop,

    sorry folks just repeating what i have heard over the years, obviously if things have been seconded and gads applied that could be gov and science together dunno, the gov premier involved could be capable of anything at the time, anyhow we aren't supposed to know about it hey.

    dunno maybe others see me as a less than intelligent creationist or the like.

    wonder why a science group would have a rule that effectively gags any other than what he hierarchy says is so, like censorship.

    no good pumping me i just heard the stuff. if i heard it their must be oodles of common knowledge anecdotal's out there.

    len
     
  19. Grasshopper

    Grasshopper Senior Member

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    No source ...Ok I didnt really expect one.

    But what do you think the agenda is?
    Why shouldnt we see a Pyramid or Spanish or Portugese stuff.
    What do you think "they" are afraid off, that "they" would want to get rid of the evidence.

    This doesnt require facts just your opinion.
     
  20. ecodharmamark

    ecodharmamark Junior Member

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    G'day Len

    Not at all, Len. I would never besmirch your good name. Crikey, you and I go back a loooooooong way on the PRI Forum. Never once have I doubted that you actually believe anything that you share with us all. Of course, occasionally, it would be great to actually have some references in the form of citations to the actual events/occurrences that you choose to share with us all. But, in their absence, we muddle through well enough, hey?

    Which brings me back to the point in question, concerning my use of the term, 'supposed': In no way did I mean to suggest that you were not being truthful about what you claim to have seen on the TV (whether it was ABC or SBS). Rather, what I was referring to, was the audacity of the said first person, she of the anthropological kind. Fancy claiming to be an anthropologist, and then in the next breathe claim that the universe in only five thousand years old! Like I said, no self-respecting anthropologist that I know (and I get to meet a few) would ever claim such a thing. Still, pity we have no reference to this person, otherwise we could take it up with her good self, hey?

    As for the rest of your post, Len: Pyramids being built, Spanish/Portuguese sailors depicted in cave paintings... all very intriguing stuff, indeed. However, like you say, all a great story. Just a pity we have no reference to any evidence of any kind, hey? I know, I know, 'they' always hide that kind of stuff from us. Bloody gubberment!

    Ah well, mate, at least you and I are on to them, hey?

    Cheerio, Markos
     
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