Locked threads

Discussion in 'The big picture' started by eco4560, Aug 13, 2012.

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  1. Ludi

    Ludi Junior Member

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    No, I'm serious. If you find that patronizing, oh well. Most people here want to talk about permaculture. You are likely to find more appropriate discussion of spirituality on a messageboard devoted to spirituality. People on spirituality messageboards are generally more interested in discussing spirituality and more ok with having their personal views challenged. This is my opinion from my personal experience.

    If you tend to find people being negative toward you here and other places you have been, you might consider it possible it is your approach and not the problem of everyone else being small minded.
     
  2. zvall

    zvall Junior Member

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    Oh sigh, the discussion has already been through this several times. Where were you? The section of these forums which was locked which is what this section is about--'locked threads'-- --and by the way, I do not separate spirituality from permaculture, as I also have explained in much depth, so again please don't patronize. Look up the term in a dictionary--IS for spirituality. Even if it wasn't I would want to talk about it. I explained in the thread that the UK permaculture forum didn't have a section which would allow exploration of spirituality, and that's why I chose the section here. I hope this is clear now.
     
  3. zvall

    zvall Junior Member

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    See this is the trouble--- 'no one' (obviously there were willing people but we got cut off freely talking) can talk about spirituality because there is too much fear of doing so. very very sad, but it is not my problem--however it is in a world that's insane and which affects all life
     
  4. gardenlen

    gardenlen Group for banned users

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    well zvall,

    that is a reflection of members of the forum and also how the moderators let the forum run, i have been many times at the end of the lash of others attempting to use what they deem as my character against me and moderators simply let it slide, might be as such i'm not a desirable in the group, but no matter, people seemingly have gone to my web page and made a judgement of my character there, as well as throw my signature line back at me that happens very often. i might say for others to note my signature line is meant to benefit others i myself feel quite comfy in my knowledge of where i am going and how to treat others by ethics started long ago.

    probably much safer for a secular group as this to chat about gardening, no judging of others for what they may do in the realm, that happens in a holier than though way around here.

    good to see you realize the world is going crazy! but it can't be discussed around the forums like this one as people do worship other things whether it be evolution, evolutionary science, the earth sciences all things that are less than say 1k years old in a planet around 6k old.

    the word spirituality covers all sorts of beliefs, for me my belief is whole and i therefore cannot have any sort of spiritual affair with anything be it permaculture or climate change, i don't need to have something like that as i am quite content with where i am.

    if someone researched they would probably discover why so many join and lurk for a while occurs, people don't like being ridiculed for opinions, they see others getting roasted so they don't contribute, for me a provide a web page so others can have a bit of a look at who i am, many others hide behind their pseudo names, like i said earlier in teh knowledge you could brush past them in the street and never know.

    about the other single thing apart from targeting someones character is the grammar teachers, now they are something else, me i make sense out of all messages i read.

    i think i adequately show others where i come from it is not their for others to ridicule me or attempt to attack my character, maturity is needed.

    take care

    len
     
  5. zvall

    zvall Junior Member

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    lol I sometimes wonder if I will EVER find a forum where everything is permitted. I just get this feeling there is some sinister presence overarching the internet which PREVENTS free discourse, and because EVERY forum I have every been to, and I have been to a fairly eclectic mix, and forums you would imagine WOULD allow free-exchange of ideas but...no. There are always moderators around who just will not tolerate this. So that is also creates a disturbing feel--because you wonder who these people are---for after all we don't really know people actual identity in these places. From what I have found many mods volunteer to do this work...?

    If I had a forum I of course would allow everything. EXCEPT threats of hacking peoples personal stuff. that would be instant banning.

    there's another form of censorship, and that is other members being able to flag or complain about certain types of interchange---bit like what happened here. I would ban that LOL. The ONLY way we are gonna get over this fear of language and other ideas, and being challenged and made to think and feel is by ALLOWING freedom of exchange of ideas. I had hoped insights from permaculture would be good encouragement but people as is typical like to categorize and not make connections--which is what spirituality is all about

    People have set ideas what 'spirituality' means, and that also a problem. I was playing the guitar before, and really getting into this spontaneous riff, and then I began singing a bit like Afro American Gospel music, and ideas were coming to me which I will share----There's a saying in Gopsel music of 'gettin the spirit', and is when people are really flowing with the singing and rhythm and feel very passionate, emotional and ecstatic. Now the BONES of this for me is not the dogmatic assumption of a 'Holy spirit' and all that, but the very flowing of feeling IS the spirit being allowed to flow and it interconnects with others and everything. And I was imagining when they sing about the 'promised land'. Now it is known that the early Afro American spirituals were singing code to plan escape from slavery--'Steal Away' is one such song. So in that respect --to the 'promised land' wouldn't be some pie in the sky ideal, but actually AWAY from their misery in the Deep South to the North--anywhere away. BUT when they eventually get to the 'promised land' in the North they soon find it is more of the same--by degrees and they still slaves---so THEN they very may will then go to church and dream of a land off-earth!!
     
  6. Unmutual

    Unmutual Junior Member

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    These offer free hosting of internet forums, and that was just on the first page of the search. I'm sure there are others. There are tons of places that will host anything for free, including free software. I'd think there are rules involved, but from my limited experience with wikis and webpages, they usually boil down to copyrighted material, or having discussions on how to blow up government buildings.

    I'm sure there is also free software(try Apache.org) if you would rather host your own message boards from the comfort of your own home. It's really not that difficult to set up and you can host AND do other things with the same computer. This is assuming you have a static IP address. You can even run a website, wiki, forums and something like teamspeak or ventrilo from a single machine, without much resource usage unless you have some serious traffic.

    https://www.proboards.com/

    https://www.forumotion.com/

    https://www.freeforums.org/
     
  7. gardenlen

    gardenlen Group for banned users

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    zvall,

    just looked at a reply of yours in the other spirituality thread.

    man has for time immoral used titles to fog or wear sheep's clothing, the term christian has so been used and abused for 1400 years or so, the name hides a multitude of sins. people pass opinion on a subject with out a lot of wisdom or knowledge, but your post does show a very secular example why many don't get involved.

    take care

    len
     
  8. zvall

    zvall Junior Member

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    It is tempting but I am usually extremely busy with research, I could not cope with running a forum. I am just surprised I have never ---actually there are two failry free-ish ones, but they are not usually that busy, and so conversations can become dead. it is the places that have large clienteles which seem to attract mods who are officious. Funnily enough on place called The Shroomery its 'spiritual' section does not have much moderations, but IF you want to broaden what spirituality means, and include politics for example, and 'conspiracy theory', this means your post gets moved to 'conspiracies and cover-ups' and there you have very fascistic moderation in the face. funny that hey? So there is something going on there, right. there is suppression of interconnecting subjects!
     
  9. zvall

    zvall Junior Member

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    Len

    Yes, but why can I be involved and they can't? What is it about me (and a few others here who were quite willing to explore stuff). IS it fear? They do not want their beliefs challenged. or be made to look into them? Again I say--so cannot they --being into permaculture--they apply this to that. To exploring say 'the problems are the solutions' and about the 'edges being the most enriched areas'/ Ie., the edge of me and the edge of them?
     
  10. gardenlen

    gardenlen Group for banned users

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    i don't have any issues or problems with what i believe, so why would i want to explore it, others may do so to prop up their reason for believing other.

    len
     
  11. zvall

    zvall Junior Member

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    because I want to? otherwise why even care if you don't care? it was people worried about their beliefs being questioned. I HAVE to question them to interelate this with other related issues I find interesting.
     
  12. ecodharmamark

    ecodharmamark Junior Member

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    G'day Len

    If by 'worship' you mean 'hold in high regard' evidence-based scientific fact, then we (including the members of 68 scientific academies from around the world) would agree with you.

    Where we have to disagree, until evidence-based scientific fact proves otherwise, is with the age of Earth.

    Of course, I'm happy to agree to disagree, and as always I wish you well on your journey, Len.

    Markos
     
  13. Grahame

    Grahame Senior Member

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    Hi again zvall, I'm just not sure you are picking up on the zeitgeist of this forum. It certainly doesn't seem to match my interpretation of it. I didn't notice any particular fear or reluctance to discuss their spiritual views. On the contrary I thought people were quite forthcoming with them. I may be wrong but it appeared to me like you were picking and choosing the posts you wanted to engage with, which is fine of course, but then to assume the rest didn't want to play is a bit of a stretch don't you think?

    It can be frustrating out there, looking for people to share your views and discuss in depth the same things your are feeling internally, I've really only ever come across a handful on the internet who seem to genuinely share a very similar perspective to me. I have found in the past they have been my greatest challengers, the ones who have helped me observe my own views impartially. I've not seen it happen very often where blunt instruments have had the same effect on myself or others.

    I personally have found it difficult to want to interact with you meaningfully, when the force with which you deliver your message overpowers the message you are attempting to deliver.

    May I ask you... What is it you are looking for? If you ask yourself honestly within. Are you looking for people to agree with you, to come around to your way of thinking? or are you looking for people to help you discover more things about yourself? Are you perhaps looking for more enlightening esoterica because of the powerful feelings you have experienced before?

    Rather than try and continually 'challenge' people by standing in front of them and saying "Halt! who goes there!?", perhaps you could put aside the challenge and just converse? People, I have found respond much better to a deep and caring conversation, than they do to direct challenges upon their person. Most of us still spend the majority of our time identifying with Ego, and when the ego is pushed, there is nothing more certain in the universe than the ego pushing back.

    I trust you will consider what I have said as a caring and considered response to all of you previous posts and in no way an attempt to criticise. I look forward to any future warm and empowering discussions and to learning more about zvall the person and your personal experiences

    Peace
     
  14. zvall

    zvall Junior Member

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    It is my nature to be up-front with my views. I don't think that is trying to whack people. Say someone does confess to having a Christian belief, and I say that there is no evidence for an historical Jesus of Nazareth. What other way is there to say it than that. I am using my reason. I have already put in the title of the thread (the one I posted about exploring spirituality) that it was intended for free discussion, and that to me means what it says. That I am going to be free to challenge beliefs, and others are quite free to challenge mine. So there then would be opportunity for part of the thread to branch into an exploration of if what I just asserted may be true, and if so what would that mean for someone believing in an historical version of Christianity. because as I would also want to say is the terrible bloody history of Christianity, and against indigenous peoples who HAVE been close to the land working with nature as is what permaculture is all about. So there we go. I personally do not patronize people, and respect them as adults, and expet them to also understand the nature of free exploration of this important subject----a subject that is really vast and I would intend it to go into very deep places. As I said--it takes two to tango, and of course I am just as vulnerable when exploring these areas because people are free to challenge what I say. I would not report them doing so.
     
  15. S.O.P

    S.O.P Moderator

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    zvall, 37 posts of spirituality. Want to talk some permaculture?

    What climate are you in? What are you growing? How much space do you have? What do you do about pests?
     
  16. zvall

    zvall Junior Member

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    one that uses pesticides

    trying to grow a thread talking freely about spirituality



    The space was locked


    listen to them :)
     
  17. S.O.P

    S.O.P Moderator

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    I can't wait for the next 200 posts about spirituality.

    BRING IT ON! I'm learning so much...

    Have you thought, zvall, about creating a 'Group' on these forums and inviting everyone in? Pretty sure you could go to town in there.
     
  18. zvall

    zvall Junior Member

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    what have you learnt?
     
  19. S.O.P

    S.O.P Moderator

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    That discussing and debating beliefs on the Internet is like a dog chasing its tail. Most 'arguments' never end because either person will never back down. They only end when one gives up and the 'winner' wins through tenacity (and usually after much name-calling) . Non-spiritual me believes forums should primarily be about questions and statements, threads are finished when the answers are given.

    You approached your thread in the very best way you could, it still ended up locked and now you are upset about it. I do believe that creating a group (the drop down box under Community at the top of this page) would suit what you are trying to achieve.
     
  20. zvall

    zvall Junior Member

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    So...you were being sarcastic ey mate? ;) I have said again and again that I question. But questioning is not just saying 'what do you think?' it is sharing my ideas too. The whole purpose of mods should be to quell 'name calling' and keep it civil. Not out and out censor, and as for arguments that go in a loop--I am familiar with a typical one between the theist and atheist that you often see loopin the loop at forums, such as Richard Dawkins forums etc, and that is because both 'sides' cannot see out of the box, and if say someone can and tries to join in you are 'invisible'. They feed off each other in a box, and nothing new can get in

    wouldn't say upset, just bemused, because I had assumed permaculturists on the whole would dig me trying to bring insights of permaculture ethics and practice into the debate about this vast subject. thing about a 'group' is--i like to include all and not be exclusive
     
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