The system sucks. I agree. Most systems do. I think the law is (in my opinion) based on the promotion side of things. If you promote eggs for sale you would need to have a permit. But if you promote flowers (as pebble mentioned), you wouldn't need a license. That doesn't mean you couldn't have a display of eggs in your flower cart... you are not advertising them after all... But that's just my thoughts... I will not be responsible for any actions arising from any advice given or mentioned by me in respect of this matter... :rofl: Only joking mate... hope you get it sorted out...
Are you sure you need a permit to sell eggs? One of the links I read before said the rules didn't apply to retailers, only producers. Sun burn, alot of people used to say the same thing about organic certification here. It was designed for big producers and was expensive, so most small organic producers didn't bother getting certified, to the loss of them and the customers. Eventually some brilliant people got together and organised a small growers scheme (growers from the same area get together and get certified and share the certification costs). The lateral thinking and planning involved was clever. Maybe you could do something similar - get groups of small producers together, and come up with a scheme that you can present to govt. Focus on the the things you already know are important, like people being able to make a living locally and supporting the local economy etc. https://www.organicfarm.org.nz/about/background
Another thought - (it's raining here again, so I have to do something so I don't get in the habit of having afternoon naps!). I know that at one of the major workplaces here in Warwick, there are a few pwople who pull up in the carpark at knock-off time, selling bags of spuds, onions and (if memory still works) I'm sure someone was selling eggs and home-made cheese at one stage. Don't know the legalities of it, but I think most customers didn't really care - they could see the produce they were getting, and if they didn't like it, they didn't buy it.
More stuff (thanks Google) Food Production (Safety) Amendment Regulation (No. 2) 2004 https://www.legislation.qld.gov.au/LEGISLTN/SLS/2004/04SL320.pdf All the regs seem to apply to an "Egg production farm" and the off-farm sales part also specifically mentions them as well. ... "off-farm sale means the sale of an egg from an egg production farm direct to the public or a retailer." Personally, I would think there is enough grey area there to sell the eggs from my non - Egg production farm, and argue my case in court (if it came to that). NOTE: The above opinion is only regarding direct sales to consumers. If you sell to any "processor" or "manufacturer", e.g restaurants, hotels etc, then you probably do need to be licenced and meet the required standards.
I don't think i'd want to argue that case Don. I was thinking today though that the government probably knows there are people breaking the law on this and is just prefers to turn a blind eye to it/ can't afford to do otherwise. It serves them right if they don't want to write legislation that is fair for everyone then they have to expect people will break the law. re the carpark, i think it would be a good idea for me down the track to find other producers. Pebble I just got an email back form NZ. It it not legal to sell milk that is unpasteurised even from the farm gate. https://www.nzfsa.govt.nz/science/risk-profiles/index.htm Shiga toxin-producing Escherichia coli (STEC) in raw milk Shiga toxin-producing Escherichia coli (STEC) are a diverse group of E. coli serotypes, the most well-known being E. coli O157:H7. While the sale of raw milk in New Zealand is prohibited, rural populations and visitors, may frequently consume it. Approximately 10% of notified human cases of STEC infection in New Zealand, mostly E. coli O157:H7, report consumption of raw milk although are also exposed to other risk factors in the farm environment. E. coli O157 has been reported, albeit rarely, in faecal samples from dairy and beef cattle, and a single infant case has been associated with contact with raw milk. However, there is insufficient data on the prevalence and numbers of STEC in raw milk to robustly estimate the risk from consumption of raw milk in New Zealand. Currently, milk for sale in New Zealand must be pasteurised. I guess you can boil it yourself before selling it. I guess that is allowed. Boiling i think is pasteurising, isn't it? Mycobacterium bovis in milk Although Mycobacterium bovis is the cause of a small proportion of the tuberculosis cases in New Zealand, public health significance is minimal. Cows milk is the food most commonly associated with transmission to humans. However, pasteurization and control of infected ruminant animals have been effective in controlling the organism. Many cases in New Zealand are due to the re-emergence of infection in older people who were infected prior to routine pasteurisation. Demonstration of the safety of New Zealand produced food with respect to this pathogen is important for international trade. Salmonella (non-typhoid) in and on eggs Non-typhoid Salmonellae cause salmonellosis; the second most frequently notified enteric disease in New Zealand. A diverse range of foods may carry the organism. New Zealand is fortunate in having a poultry industry and egg supply in which types of Salmonella that have caused major problems overseas (S. Enteritidis PT4 and S. Typhimurium DT104) are not endemic. Although eggs and egg dishes have been regularly implicated in reported outbreaks of salmonellosis in New Zealand, this has rarely been supported by laboratory evidence.
lol. I bet the authorities would HATE that. They'd have to go and inspect a number of "places" to make sure everything was clean and hygienic. I haven't read your link yet but I am surprised that this would be possible unless everyone ran their operation the same way, had the same setup and mabye even all sold their eggs as a coop. I mean if they were a coop then I can see how that would work well. I was surprised to read yesterday that in New Zealand its only if you have over 100 'birds" that you have to go the whole bureaucratic route. That's a lot of leeway for small producers. I don't know if this all comes down to a possiblity that New Zealand poultry have less salmonella than Australia or if its just bureaucratic sadism on our part.
Pebble I've read a little bit of that now and I have to say it looks promising. I will read more tomorrow. As regards to the organic label thing, also because of the high costs involved, i decided I am not even going to bother going down that road. As I can speak directly to my customers I can say my produce is organic as in grown without artificial fertilisers, pesticides or herbicides. Again, this whole organic label thing is probably intended more for bigger faceless producers anyway. If you know your customers and they know you, then I see no need for it at all.
I agree sun burn. I buy organic from producers I know and am not bothered if they don't have certification. I gave the OFNZ story as an example of people getting together and creatively and laterally solving a problem. It's a bit different than the situation you are in because they didn't have to deal with the govt, but I still like the approach - where people take matters into their own hands *and* find solutions that work within the mainstream. The NZFSA website is wrong. There are farmers who sell raw milk from the gate here and MAF is quite aware of that. Yes, it's small enough numbers that they're not worried about it I suppose. They did close down a largish buying group where the milk was being transported off the farm and then being sold, but those people are still now allowed to sell from the gate. I'd love to see what the NZFSA actually said to you. The authorities here seem to say 'you can't sell raw milk' as a kind of knee jerk response (not least because they don't want to encourage people to drink raw milk). And it's possible that the NZFSA person didn't actually know about the 5 litres per person per day from the gate law. You might want to pass this link on to them though (from their own website) ;-) Here's the actual legislation: https://www.nzfsa.govt.nz/science/risk-profiles/mycobacterium-bovis-in-milk.pdf (btw be aware that 'raw milk' is also an industrial term for large producers who sell milk into processing).
Oops, the top quote is from: https://www.nzfsa.govt.nz/science/risk-profiles/mycobacterium-bovis-in-milk.pdf And the legislation is here: https://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1981/0045/latest/DLM50177.html
Well that's interesting pebble. I"d be happy to quote the entire email to you here and maybe you can interpret for me. I found it unpleasant reading. My mind does not want to read bureaucratese. I did however take a peak in a few links. I suppose to be fair my original message wasn't particularly clear either. I sent it on a pertinent website email form which is probably why i wasn't explicit at the beginning of my email.
NZ egg sale information This is where we get the news that I wouldn't have any problems selling eggs in New Zealand. https://www.nzfsa.govt.nz/animalproducts/subject/eggs/index.htm
I don't think that guy answered your questions very well at all. I'll ask people I know here who produce and sell eggs (big and small farmers) and see what they have to do.
thanks pebble. I've noticed that bureaucrats rarely do. I think they don't know the answers and they just like to fob you off. Then i often get cranky with them but in this case I decided to try to read the links and not reply.
Probably a good idea. I think often they are overworked too, so it's easier to just sent a bunch of stuff off the internet than take the time to explain in lay terms how things actually work. Or some people don't seem to realise that if you are not conversant with the system already then the jargon and concepts and information structures being used are just bloody hard work to make sense of.
There's the old joke about the bloke in a hot air balloon who is lost in thick fog. He gradually lowers the balloon until he can see the ground, when a man walking his dog comes into view through the swirling mist. He asks the dog-walker where he is, and gets the reply, "You're in a balloon basket, hovering three feet off the ground." He replies, "You must be a public servant!" "How do you know that?" asks the dog-walker. "Because your answer, although factually and technically correct, is of absolutely no use to anyone!"
Thanks Don, that's lovely. Could i post that as a reply to the person who wrote me that email. Not long ago my father and his girlfriend had this conversation with me. I can't remember the first line of this convo very clearly but it was something a bit like this... Maggie: I worry about your father. He often says things that are blindingly obvious. Me: I think its a family trait but give me an example? Maggie: I was looking at some trees and pointed at one and he told me "It's a tree" Dad: You asked "what's that?" I don't think i got the dialogue exactly right but anyway it looks like father missed his calling.
