Learning by Doing. Looking forward to making mistakes :)

Discussion in 'Members' Systems' started by anarchist912, Nov 21, 2010.

  1. anarchist912

    anarchist912 Junior Member

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    I had the luck to find someone, who is willing to allocate me his property :bow::rofl:, which is a partly recultivated dump for digging from building lots. This was about 2 months ago.
    Ive started planning and also did some earthworks already.
    More about my background can be found in my first post.

    Location: Miesbach (40 km South of Munich), South Germany, Europe
    Latitude: 47.806607 N
    Longitude: 11.83159 E

    Climate: temperate and marine; cool, cloudy, wet winters and summers; occasional warm foehn wind
    Absolute Max. Temp.: 30,3°C Min.: -17,8°C (2004)
    Average Max. Temp.: 12,7°C Min.: 2,9°C (2004)
    Average Temp.: 7,6°C (2004)
    Days with frost: 133 (2004)
    Average Humidity: 83 % (2004)

    Precipitation: 1091,2 mm (per year)
    Climate diagram: click here (from weatherstation 25 km away)
    Days with snow cover: 98

    Media:
    See it on Google Maps.

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Design:
    The idea was to build a sun trap. Because of the row of trees in the east (on the photo above, you can see those trees in the background - so the image is facing east), there is only little morning sun, which i try to let in. Direct sunlight will mainly come in the early afternoon, thats why the heat trap, and everything, is facing southwest.
    There is much wood lying around nearby - one of the reasons i decided to establish some mound beds. There a 2 types of it. The first type is built like a ridge and is also thought to function as one, the second type is shaped as a keyhole bed. I want to mainly grow vegetables in these beds, but havent thought about which ones yet.
    Winters coming and i will be glad, when i have finished the other half of earthworks, i still have to do, to fully establish all the mound beds.

    As soon as its possible in spring, i want to heavily "green manure", then sheet mulch, and after planting the flowers, bushes and trees, etc., have white clover (as masanobu fukuoka did) as living mulch/green manure, leaving some space around the plantings, where there is "dead mulch".

    The selection of plants is mainly based on the wider know walnut tree guilds. If you think long, long ahead, there shouldnt be any beds then any more, because the juglone and shade produced by the walnut tree will stunt plant growth there.
    I also selected shade tolerant plants, where appropriate. (Of course i also considered other requirements such as soil, climate, etc. - however im not very sure i havent made some mistakes at the moment)

    The stone field is primarily thought to serve as thermal mass and i want to interplant it with alpine strawberry and some herbs (dont know which ones yet).

    Plants:
    Heres a list of plants which i envisioned to this date. You can see on the plan above, where i want to place them.


    Im already looking forward to massive criticism and so on :).
    kindest greetings.
    sven
     
  2. sun burn

    sun burn Junior Member

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    Well since you were keen for criticism i thought someone had better respond. I am pretty tired and don't really feel up to criticism today but I don't think i can say much anyway. You've done a smart job with your diagrams and maps :)

    I am afraid I can't understand your lovely diagram very well though becuase i don't know the latin plant names although i see them just above. Still they are all unfamiliar plants to me. The only slight criticism i might make is more of a question. Are these plants in the list, plants you want to eat from? Is there a reason for no fruit trees?

    For me your diagram would be a bit easier to read if there were a scale line. Ie how far is 1cm or how many cms is 10 metres or whatever? It would make it easier to read.

    Where does teh water come from for the gardens? Are you relying on precipitation or do you have some irrigation plan or what?

    Good luck with the project.
     
  3. anarchist912

    anarchist912 Junior Member

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    Where exactly is the problem with unterstanding the plan? Did you read the list of Plants? Its exactly those plants that i used in planning, so what you can see on the diagram you could further explore.. for each plant, there is a link to a database entry of that particular plant.

    And every plant yields at least one edible and partly otherwise usable crops, except perhaps the comfrey. Everything else is very edible: 8 are yielding fruits (Elderberry, Crowberry, Gooseberry, Blackcurrant, Alpine Strawberry, Dwarf Quince, Japanese Wineberry, Boxthorn/Wolfberry and Goumi), 2 yield Edible Flowers (Musk Mallow, Common Day Lily), 2 yield edible Seeds (Musk Mallow, Sweet Cicely) and 1 yields edible tubers and edible leaves (Sweet Cicely).

    I see i have to include some supporting plants, that also help building soil, etc. I too exclusively focused on yields till now.

    I couldnt find out how to export the grid of that scalable vector graphics (.svg) program (called inkscape) into the graphic files. Because then every small box of the grid would equate 0,5 m on the ground. Ill try to improve this. But if you print it out, without scaleing the image than 1 cm would be 1 m.

    The reason for no common fruit trees is the very specific walnut guild. Plants under or nearby a Walnut tree have to be juglone resistant, if you dont want there growth to be stunted by this allelopathic plant. When fully mature, the Walnut tree
    will have a maximum treetop size of 20m in diameter.

    We have much precipitation here. I have the possibility of watering with water from a nearby groundwater well. But I dont want to unnecessarily make use of it - and i dont think it will be necessary. Ill see if it is enough to integrate some very small swales an build up soil very very rich in humus. Which i think of one of the most important factors in permaculture.. or better plant systems.

    Thank you for your inspiring comments and wishes.
    sven

    PS: Why isnt it possible to edit the first post of the thread? I forgot to include some information and would like to update it.. Or should i just copy&paste my first entry, change what changed, and post it again?
     
  4. pebble

    pebble Junior Member

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    Location:
    inland Otago, NZ
    Climate:
    Inland maritime/hot/dry/frosty
    Don't start a new thread. Just repost here.

    Interesting project. Re the planting plan, I agree that it needs some scale in it. The big trees obviously aren't to scale in the diagram (Limes and oaks are much bigger trees than elders for instance), and I'm a little unclear where the trunk of the walnut is and how big it's canopy will be, and which trees are already adults and which are young.

    Otherwise lots of it makes sense - the sun trap, using the wood beds (is that hugelkulture?) on the slope as a kind of swale, the stone heat sink etc.

    Will the design be integrated into the wider area?
     
  5. sun burn

    sun burn Junior Member

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    I agree don't repost, just add the missing infor here. I thought you could update a first post but i notice that you can't update a post after 20 minutes. I got caught out on that the other day. Unless you ask the moderators to try to do it for you. I read that they seem to have these "special powers" and may be able to do something like that.

    The "problem" is really only mine. As a reader of the diagram i don't really want to bother running backwards and forwards between pages in order to understand a diagram. So if it were possible you could put the list of common names on the same page in a box at the side perhaps. But really this diagram is yours for you. Anyone who is qualified to give you good criticism on your plan probably knows the latin names.

    Interesting about the walnut.
     
  6. eco4560

    eco4560 New Member

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    You have different gardening problems to me - I have lots of sun - too much in summer, and usually minimal rain in spring (not this year though). Using the stone heat traps and the plantings to capture the light is really clever design work. I wanted to ask if you were using hugelkulture beds too but pebble beat me to it!
     
  7. anarchist912

    anarchist912 Junior Member

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    Oh, i forgot to mention some things. (After i had nearly finished the first post of this thread, you know the big one, mozilla just thought it could crash now and also did it and everything was lost, so i had to reconstruct everything.. i missed out some things)

    The whole property is about 2 hectare. The spot ive chosen to begin ( on the diagram, and so on) is about 100m².

    On the diagram, all the circles of plants, that are filled brown, represent trees, that are already standing there. they do not represent their canopy, only the rough size of the trunk.
    All the green circles for plants are only fantasy till now. They represent the maximum dimension to be assumed. By the way, if you compare the diagram with the foto, you can see, that it fits.
    The walnut trees (and ashes) in the north (left row on the diagram) are only little small and they need to be taking much care of, because they seem to suffer a little bit to me. at least they dont really thrive there.

    Ill try to integrate the list with latin and common names next time.

    It is a hügelkultur, or hügelbeet, yes.
    Those mound beds function like a kind of swale, but i think it wont be enough, because there is a slope and all the plants, that are planted on top of the hill, so to say, wont get down that far i guess?
    So i would have to integrate some other swales farther on the top?

    @pebble: What does that mean, will the design be integrated into the wider area?

    As soon as im finished with the other half of the earthworks, im gonna take pictures, of the progress. I have lots of pictures from before i started anything, but i guess, they aint so interesting to you, for now?
     
  8. anarchist912

    anarchist912 Junior Member

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    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Now with additions i promised. The right one shows the future maximum dimensions of two walnut trees, and the one ash tree.
     
  9. milifestyle

    milifestyle New Member

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    Hi Sven,

    Looks like your off to a great start... well laid out plans.

    Is that your picture as your Avatar...?

    Welcome to the PRI forum.
     
  10. anarchist912

    anarchist912 Junior Member

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    Yupp thats me. Eric J. Smith, is that you? I feel i have to read a little bit more on your blog ;)
    Will it be a good start? It surely could be better, couldnt it?
     
  11. sun burn

    sun burn Junior Member

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    Thanks for the adjustments for my part. I think its a good improvement.
     

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