Julia's New Carbon Price

Discussion in 'The big picture' started by eco4560, Feb 24, 2011.

  1. gardenlen

    gardenlen Group for banned users

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    but that is the bit hey?

    me and my wife don't go buy those things that the yuppy affluent rich set buy. we buy necessities only, we use minimum power, but there is going to be no reward for us and others like us, just the pain of trying to live as the necessities get moe expensive, as one said we can all afford to pay more for food, no humanity in statements like that.

    len
     
  2. matto

    matto Junior Member

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    Theres no humanity in paying a dollar a litre for milk either.
     
  3. gardenlen

    gardenlen Group for banned users

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    why matto,

    you don't explain?

    we wouldnever buy those milks they sell on special we try to by milks that more ressemble proper milk. if we could we would buy direct from the farmer before it get adulterated in the milk factory, we would glady pay him $2 or even $3 a litre, if everyone did that the middle man would lose and the consumer and farmer would win.

    we try to buy the best quality fresh food we can find locally, and for over 90% of the time that measn the stupid markets lose out.

    len
     
  4. matto

    matto Junior Member

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    As I said in my original post, the farmers are bear the brunt of price wars and climate change. The farmer im working for now in citrus gets paid $20 a tonne for juiceing oranges and it costs him $300 a tonne to pick... he reckons if consumers paid an extra 5cents at the checkout he would make $400 a tonne.

    I wouldnt expect many people here to shop at the stupid market, but I think that food is cheap in relation to our wage. Maybe if Big Ag was forced to pay for emissions then local, fresh organic produce will become a cheaper option. Probably won't help our major grain crops too much.

    I just think its an oversight not to include agriculture initially if it is one of the biggest polluters.
     
  5. gardenlen

    gardenlen Group for banned users

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    yes matto the post i saw from you about milk had no mention of the farmer.

    and i for one just like molleson if i heard him right, farmers need to supply direct to their consumers, so you see to pay more at the checkout would not help the farmer as the stupidmarkets buys at as lowr price they can wgich ahs littel bearing on the retail price. the farmer should say if "i moved my farm to where my consumers are then if they paid me 1/2 what the shops charge" for less than fresh food full of chemicals the farmer would do very well indeed as they did back in the 40's and 50's when they lived in the community.

    oh the consumer does not set prices we naively just pay what is asked, if the product does not sell the shops throw it out.

    len
     
  6. milifestyle

    milifestyle New Member

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    Actually thats a good move... Put the price up on Gourmet Salmon & Camembert and leave Milk prices at a consumer level staple price. Its about time someone brought Staple food items down to a price even the poor can afford and prices were raised on items only the rich get.

    Just a pity it had to be the big supermarkets that done it!
     
  7. Grahame

    Grahame Senior Member

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    I reckon the best option is for people to stop drinking milk and eating dairy (except if they have a permaculture house cow of course). That will see an end to monoculture dairy farming, which IMNSHO can only be a good thing for the environment. Even if everyone drank more water there would still be less water used overall. Making milk is a thirsty business.

    Less methane, less global warming. Come on folks do your bit, kick your dairy habit!
     
  8. milifestyle

    milifestyle New Member

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    Unfiortunately due to a VERY small rental property we are not living very "Permaculturaly" at the moment... So I buy and use Organic Oat Milk... does that help, Grahame ? ;o)

    The philosophy doesn't only have to apply to milk though Grahame. There are a lot of staple food items out of reach of the poorer community simply because they are priced out of their bracket.
     
  9. Grahame

    Grahame Senior Member

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    Isn't that why whole roasted chickens don't attract the GST? ;)

    I do like your philosophy though.
     
  10. Glenn18

    Glenn18 Junior Member

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    springtide...
    "The government would be able to take money from their customers, plant trees with it and give some to the united nations fund to help third world countries develop in a more eco friendly way"

    Our taxs allready go to 2nd/3rd world countries in the form of aid,and you advocate it would be good to pay TWICE on our carbon tax as well.??

    matto....
    " The farmer im working for now in citrus gets paid $20 a tonne for juiceing oranges and it costs him $300 a tonne to pick... he reckons if consumers paid an extra 5cents at the checkout he would make $400 a tonne"
    Then the middleman (Stupidmarkets)sell 1kg of juice for $3.00,,thats about $3.000 per tonne.Why should we pay .5c at the checkout to make up the difference when if the stupidmarkets payed the $280 per tonne to makeup the farmers shortfall(instead of screwing him),they would still make a profit.

    Thank heavens the government are in controll of this...ROTFLMAO.
     
  11. Grahame

    Grahame Senior Member

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    I wont do it again after this, I promise, but...

    I think we would be better off growing an orange tree and eating a fresh orange, or if need be squeeze some of said oranges into our own juice that we didn't pay a cent for. We could divide up the farmers property and make an eco-village on it. He could grow everything thing he needs on his little bit and help the community grow their oranges together. That way we can get rid of the middleman and the last man. We could just have the first man, growing and eating/drinking his own stuff. This way we could do away with inefficient mono-culture citrus groves!

    I reckon there is an orange tree in your neighbourhood that no-one looks after and all the fruit just drops to the ground every year. Track it down and do your bit. COme on everyone!

    ;)
     
  12. eco4560

    eco4560 New Member

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    I've seen it - it's in my neighbours place 3 doors down.... I don't think they associate the orange orbs with the stuff in the plastic bottle at the supermarket....
     
  13. Grasshopper

    Grasshopper Senior Member

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    I dream of orange orbs but need to wait a few more years to see my own :/ (though have my first Chinnottos this year)

    Had a friend who had a monster orange tree in Melbourne everyone was invited to come round with shopping bags
    I filled 3 and was asked to get more bags next time
    all friends and neighbours didn't need to buy an orange.
     
  14. springtide

    springtide Junior Member

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    Hey Glenn 18 -
    i am unconvinced on the carbon tax as it is a global concept and unless everyone on the planet takes it seriously in the next 30 years or so then were in trouble, the government is not about to remove the subsidy on coal fired electricity, and we are already beggining to pay more for climate change - de sal water is more expensive, bannanas, tomatoes are rapidly rising in price as they are harder to produce, food is becomming more scarce (farms failing, etc), etc, etc.
    The main reason i wrote that thought down is that i know there is 2 sided to the science of climate change but i don't understand why scientists across the world would falsify pro CC data in an x-files like global conspiracy as suggested in other threads, surely the anti CC scientists should be the ones with millions of dollars in research funds rolling in every day, lots of air time on tv and hundreds of magazines touting their cause.
    The only reason i can easily suggest that the anti CC scientists aren't all driving porsche gt3 s is that they are wrong.
     
  15. Grahame

    Grahame Senior Member

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    A effective response to global environmental degradation is not going to come from a government, at least not from a modern Western government. Any government that tried to do something meaningful would firstly, not get elected, and secondly, be ousted quick smart if they tried. They couldn't even get a mining super profits tax up! No, it will only ever happen if there is a revolution in the way people live their lives, if the majority of people DEMAND that something be done. And when you have a country such as ours, full of fat cats, lazy-arses, and Herald-Sun readers that is a long way off.

    When the people don't give a toss it would take a heroic leader to do something about it. You only need a couple of strong dissenting voices in the crowd to turn the town meeting - tell the people what they wont to here and they will flock towards you.

    The reason government just do enough to be seen to be doing something, is because the masses are happy enough with that. For the moment governments can't doing anything more than put up a show.

    Lets get serious folks, our goose is cooked and until you take full responsibility for everything you do and convince your neighbour to do the same its a quick ride in a hand-basket from here.

    Do you still shop at a supermarket? Do you still shop at bunnings? Do you still shop? If the answer is yes, then you are not taking this environmental battering seriously. IMO
     
  16. gardenlen

    gardenlen Group for banned users

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    yes grahame,

    general apathy in our community and no doubt the USA as well, people have no care about worldy things so long as they are ok jack, their minds are cluttered with sports and sports people worship along with flag worship and holloween, they feel satisfied and happy, they buy cheap food and their bellies are full what more would they want to care about. all they get thrown at them is the fear hype that accompanies each weather report (which by mass they won't even see - unless they have a fishing trip on the next day), presenter sleering toward the camera with wide eyes there's rain coming, brissy will flood again, another hinted killer cylone in the making, with the warning you need to watch it be prepared, and then like this last period none of it happened not even the deluge of rain. same with the recently passed cyclones over the west fear hype added when they were never going to eventuate to much if anything at all.

    if the community came together as one not driven by fads or fancies then yes we would stand but we are divided so we must surely fall, give over on all this we must be causing something fluff, confounding industrial revolution in the 1800's with today and blaming 7 billion people against what in the 1800's 1.3 billion(what is their answer to that purge some of the population i think i heard once the heirachy of the world wants to thin the population out by 95%) creating their own comfort zone that the carbon issue just must be caused by man then seting out with their little computer models to prove their shaky point. no doubt man could be causing issues but habitat destruction and over fishing are probably more the culprit + inefficent and unaffordable houses that are unsustainable, hark back to the song "little boxes on the hillside".

    len
     
  17. bazman

    bazman Junior Member

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    Example, local made steel (with carbon tax) vs imported steel (no carbon tax) you will drive more production and manufacturing overseas. This is a major issue with applying a carbon tax cost to Australian manufactured goods.

    If the money from this tax (carbon credits) went to companies that showed improvements in reduced emissions that would drive Australian manufacturing to create, invest and develop clean technologies and in the end be more efficient. I think this is important to do to develop clean tech.

    The whole scheme is so potentially complex and taking the time and effort to make it right are important. It's going to be interesting from my companies point of view as we convert mobile carbon into a fixed carbon product which sequesters carbon out of the normal carbon cycle.

    Australia is a technology advanced nation with large money making exports and a high standard of living, I can't see any reason for Australia not to join other smart developed countries in reducing our carbon/chemical foot print.

    It just has to be done right on a big scale which drives industry to change.
     
  18. Tegs

    Tegs Junior Member

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    Well said, I agree. Australia has one of the highest standards of living in the world today. We can all make do with a little less and still be far better off than the majority of the global population. Especially those that are paying the real price for our high standard of living!
     
  19. Glenn18

    Glenn18 Junior Member

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    Sprigtide wrote....
    "The main reason i wrote that thought down is that i know there is 2 sided to the science of climate change but i don't understand why scientists across the world would falsify pro CC data in an x-files like global conspiracy as suggested in other threads, surely the anti CC scientists should be the ones with millions of dollars in research funds rolling in every day, lots of air time on tv and hundreds of magazines touting their cause.
    The only reason i can easily suggest that the anti CC scientists aren't all driving porsche gt3 s is that they are wrong."

    https://www.iceagenow.com/Prominent_US_physics_professor_resigns_from_American_Physical_Society.htm

    I got thousands of prominent scientists that think the same..Want more?
     
  20. Glenn18

    Glenn18 Junior Member

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    Gee these buggers are frauds,arn't they...This is worldwide.

    https://www.iceagenow.com/List_of_Climate_Realists_grows.htm

    Next might be scientific graphs to support global cooling,some from the same illusionists that are giving you global warming no doubt.

    I understand that some might say that iceage.com is a site for CC denialists,but they arn't denying CC!!What they are trying to promote is what the MAJORITY of scientists are agreeing on...That GW has been manufactured from BS graphs for financial purpose's,most of these scientists don't even get into the money side of it all,just the real facts.What in the hell do you ppl read??

    All winter records in Europe and America have been broken,This year alone,sounds like warming dose it.Do you want the actuall records and the graphs from the same ppl that advocate GW???
    I got them.
     

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