Jim's Permaculture

Discussion in 'The big picture' started by Parsley, Jul 27, 2007.

  1. Parsley

    Parsley Junior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2007
    Messages:
    20
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    To be a comercial permaculturist all you need to use the name is a two week PDC dose this undermine permaculture. i think this may be a very old topic in fact i know it is. how can you go out and be a good designer ofter two weeks of learning sure some people may hit the ground running though if you dont a back grond with relavant skills it is very hard to be a profsional job.

    so you head up to north queensland spend time up there do an inturnship a practicale PDC then after two year you may have a diploma then maybe you could do a professinal job. sure any permacultureist will do a more approperate garden than any other garden disigner landscaper yet they often lack the very important aesthitic that you need to become comercial or mainstream dose permaculture need to be mainstream.

    will "Jims mowing" Permaculture venture currupt the name Permaculture
     
  2. Jez

    Jez Junior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2005
    Messages:
    1,335
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    G'day Parsley,

    Well, by the same token, you don't need any qualifications whatsoever to open a 'landscaping' or 'gardening' business. The good ones survive through word of mouth, referrals, and by building a successful business.

    In the end 'landscaping', or 'gardening' don't get bad names per se, there's just good and bad practitioners. I've seen professional, high paid, big business landscapers charge like wounded bulls to make huge jobs look no better than a grey gravel car park would in the same place.

    I would imagine most of the Jim's blokes will keep things pretty simple to begin with - a herb spiral, some annual and perennial beds, a chook run and shed, an orchard, wind breaks...it isn't rocket science.

    The Jim's blokes will hopefully learn a lot every day as they go, they'll become better designers as time goes on, they'll share info with each other, they'll go back to their teacher with questions...I really can't see how converting the average lawn based backyard can end up 'worse' as a Permaculture design. At least the owners will get a yield from the produce even under a poorly designed, worst case scenario...I doubt anyone's ever stuffed up all plants in a herb spiral, or failed to grow simple vegies in rich topsoil brought onto the site (as I suspect Jim's will do a lot).

    In the end, unlike most traditional landscaping jobs, the owner is going to have to interact with it on a daily basis. As they do, they'll learn what works on their site and what doesn't, they'll read about Permaculture themselves etc, and if they're only partially happy or unhappy with the job, they'll more than likely call in a more experienced designer to 'fix' it, or learn to improve things themselves.

    Among those who make the 'Permaculture choice' for their yard, I doubt there will be many who end up saying 'I don't like this, turn it back to lawn'...they'll have already made a financial commitment to make it work...more than likely for ethical reasons.

    On another note, I think by the time most people complete their final site design and their PDC, they have a pretty good indication of whether or not they're ready to go further with Permaculture commercially. Plus more and more teachers are now doing courses which are all about hands-on stuff to complement the basic theory of the PDC.
     
  3. Parsley

    Parsley Junior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2007
    Messages:
    20
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    hey Jez i tend to agree with the things you say i would like to see permaculture every where i think every accountant politician architects what ever should do a PDC. i will be interesting to see how many people actually call a Jims permaculturist as most people don’t ever know what that strange word is
     
  4. Luisa

    Luisa Junior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2006
    Messages:
    112
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    More details please!!!

    Has Jim's Mowing branched out into PC? I haven't heard anything about this anywhere else.
     
  5. RobWindt

    RobWindt Junior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2006
    Messages:
    138
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
  6. Jim Penman

    Jim Penman New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2007
    Messages:
    2
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    We did run a one-day Permaculture course for about 24 Franchisees, but only those who have done an approved 72 hour course can take leads from our office. So far this is four Franchisees only. I might add that all of them have extensive and relevant experience as well. For example, the guy who will be doing my yard already has installed many permaculture garden features in his own place, including a self-contained aquaponics and vegetable system.

    As the system (hopefully) grows, more and more ongoing training can be provided. I might also add that our commitment to customer service is absolute. Franchisees are absolutely required to fix substandard jobs. If they don't, the Franchisor is responsible. Failing that, I will personally contact the client and arrange rectification.

    I want to make Permaculture gardens a standard option for every Australian back yard. Happy to correspond with anyone on this topic.
     
  7. Mrs Parker-Bowles

    Mrs Parker-Bowles Junior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2006
    Messages:
    29
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Jim's Permaculture

    Hi Jim,

    Firstly, I'd like to say welcome.

    I am extremely pleased to see someone like yourself joining in on this type of forum.

    Personally, I am very pleased to see Jim's hop on board. I don't see a problem with permaculture being incorporated into large scale businesses. I'm quite sure that this is something that you've been considering for some time and not just a sudden impulse to join the "Permaculture craze".

    To quote Geoff:

    I think that Jim's certainly has the potential to make Permaculture more widely recognised and that will ultimately help us all. It will no doubt trigger all sorts of new interest. It will prompt people to read, surf the net, and if not call Jim's it will prompt them to track down consultants and give them more business. Yay!

    Parsley: By this do you mean - Will people no longer complete proper training? I don’t think so. People will always want to do PDC’s and practical training and this might just help to raise the profile of those who do.

    I think that it's also important to remember that not everyone has time / money / even intellect to complete a PDC. We certainly shouldn't hold that against those who perhaps have read up on permaculture but, just cant manage to do it alone. Maybe they don’t have the time to do all of the ground work or perhaps they want to live a greener lifestyle but can’t get their head around designing their property. I have been fortunate enough to have done my PDC (twice in fact) and that was great news for my family because I have been able to take that information home and deliver it to them in a way that is digestible. They love permaculture and they don't need a certificate to prove they practice it. It’s ok to practice and not preech.

    I’ve been thinking about “return of surplus” regarding Jim’s venture.
    Perhaps, Jim's could invest some of their Permaculture profits in helping to establish more permaculture institutes. Whether is as small as providing scholarships so that we can produce better teachers or investing in the development of institutes. It would be grand to have an institute in each state. We certainly need more locations for courses and making land available for practical courses would be a admirable way to return some of the surplus. Teachers might one day have real places to teach. (I’m not suggesting there aren’t currently but we do need more)
    Perhaps Jim's customers can help too - say $5.00 from every completed job could be donated back to those institutes. It's not unreasonable.

    So Jim, I’m awarding you...6 kudos. Yes, that's a whopper, I usually limit myself to awarding maximum of three. I have always admired you in that no matter how big your business(/es) have become you have (to the best of my knowledge) remained pretty much just the Jim you were when you were just like me. That's the way it should be and good on you. I hope that you have much success here because it is all important no matter how big or small. I’d be really keen know your thoughts on return of surplus.

    Regardeners,

    Jodi.
     
  8. Shirley

    Shirley Junior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2007
    Messages:
    16
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Jodi,

    Very well said, I think the more Permaculture is heard about all the better, no matter where it comes from. I have been trying to do a hands on course on the Southside of Brisbane for years and to my knowledge there are none available. I am now doing a Permaculture Design Course by correspondence through Permaculture Visions, probably not the ideal, not being hands on but I have been into Permaculture for years and it is just reinforcing all that I already have knowledge about, and I am putting what I am learning into practice.

    If Jims Permaculture can get it out there I say great!!! :D
     
  9. gardenlen

    gardenlen Group for banned users

    Joined:
    May 14, 2004
    Messages:
    3,464
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    shirley,

    just another person pushing the money making band wagon that keeps p.c out of the grass roots level of our community.

    anyhow that aside you say you can't find a pdc in brissy environ'?? have you done a google, checked the TAFE colleges, there are oodles of them around brissy one lady lived at sandgate, forget what she called herself now?

    after all anyone who ahs done a pdc then seems to be able to take on doing a course to make their money back, even if they aren't recognised teachers.

    don't need a plaque on the wall to do permaculture, there is a link on our site to a free onlin into to pdc course in its entirety.

    len
     
  10. Shirley

    Shirley Junior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2007
    Messages:
    16
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Len,

    I want something avalible on the SOUTHSIDE, and yes I have googled, yes I have phoned people I wanted to do a recognised course which I got a certificate at the end of it, and to my knowledge there is none on the southside avalible.

    I clicked on your link about the free PCD course, when it came up it has been around for a longtime on many different websites and I actually printed it out from another website about 6 months ago.

    I placed my previous comments just to see who would respond negitively. I think that if it is getting permaculture out to the lay person spreading the word then it is good, more people united under the same interest.

    Shirley.
     
  11. gardenlen

    gardenlen Group for banned users

    Joined:
    May 14, 2004
    Messages:
    3,464
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    ah but it isn't getting to the grass roots is it?

    and i'm sorry that objective comment is viewed as negative.

    for me reading a little into to pc, a 2 day TAFE intro' to course and seeing molleson online about 30 years ago wa enough to give me the common sense idea of what pc is realy all about and visible accolades doesn't appear to be it.

    len
     
  12. Sonya

    Sonya Junior Member

    Joined:
    May 11, 2006
    Messages:
    200
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Hi,

    Shirley, do Beelarong run permaculture courses? They have the Qld National Community Gardens Conference there in a couple of weeks, I'd assume they ran pc courses too?

    As for $$ and permaculture. I left a full time, well paying job in June 2006 to persue a part time career in pc. I spent money on a pdc and a cert IV so I could teach - I've been studying pc for many years and have lived the pc lifestyle for a few years, and have completed many courses before the PDC and was happy to take a very big pay cut and do lots and lots of volunteer work with more experienced pc people to get to a level to be able to run courses myself as I've been doing over the past 12 months.

    But, unfortunately, I just can't do it and have returned to part time paid employment in my old industry - which is not pc at all.

    I even tried running free weekend courses - introductions to permaculture, free composting and worm farming courses - not one phone call, not one inquiry in six weeks of advertising.

    I'm currently running a pc course in peak oil action planning at a greatly reduced cost just to get 'out there' teaching and sharing the pc word, but unfortunately again, numbers have dropped from 22 to 6 people. Not enough to give me enough to live on, let alone to do the right thing and tithe money back into pc, so it's back to other work for me. I'm also trying to complete my Diploma of PC too.

    Very disappointing, but the writing was on the wall, lots of people try to make a living out of pc, but its too difficult.

    It's a real problem - people believe pc should be free or at least of very little cost, but on the other hand, people don't value anything that's free or doesn't cost much - they either don't turn up, or just drop out.

    I'm now working part time for an employer, which takes my time and energy away from pc and trying to do more there, and its very disappointing that people just aren't interested in learning about it.

    I spend every Saturday morning opening up an information centre on climate change, peak oil and permaculture and I'm lucky if two people turn up - and they're usually just looking for cheap mushroom compost or want to take free cuttings from the garden. I'm advertising the centre out of my own pocket, but can't maintain shelling out money week after week with no interest in the community.

    So I have to reassess my future career and focus on what will bring me a part time (meager) wage, - I've got myself to a stage I don't need much at all - rather than trying to make a living out of pc. I've given it over a year with no income, but I'll continue living the pc lifestyle, but sadly I won't be able to work in the industry like I'd hoped to.

    Sonya
     
  13. bazman

    bazman Junior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2005
    Messages:
    802
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    0
    It's a question I kept asking but never really got a magic answer back on, how do you make a living out of PC, I now see PC as a group of tools like Masanobu Fukuoka's Natural Farming, keyline and natural sequence farming, these all help people understand the land scape and some of the natural processes we live with. That's how I'm using it for now.

    I have now reduced my working week to two days so I can develop my property and create a secure organic food source for my family, I have pretty well given up on the idea of creating community gardens and developing PC groups etc... Planting 100's of tree's, putting up buildings, adding swales and creating quality growing soils for my food producing areas uses most (all) of this time.

    That said I do have my finger in a little project called Biochar, which might one day turn into a sustainable organic business, maybe...

    I do offer my help to those who ask, but I have found no one take's it past chasing up contour maps so I can do a rough design, problem belong them..... I do offer people access to my property if they want ideas and PC plant stock if I have it. I'm taking the organic orchard and property development pretty seriously now.

    Good luck Sonya, you are lucky to have many like minded people around you, I do beat the drum but dance by myself.
     
  14. Jez

    Jez Junior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2005
    Messages:
    1,335
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I'm really sorry to hear things haven't taken off as you'd hoped yet Sonya, I know how much effort and enthusiasm you've been putting into it.

    I don't know anything about your area, but I know you have the right ideas, so perhaps it's just a matter of the timing not being right for where you are?

    On reflection, perhaps that's why so many Australian Permaculture practitioners are working overseas...the different social, economic and agricultural situation means the need is so much more obvious.
     
  15. Sonya

    Sonya Junior Member

    Joined:
    May 11, 2006
    Messages:
    200
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Interesting point Jez, one I hadn't thought of, thanks.

    Sonya
     
  16. milifestyle

    milifestyle New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2008
    Messages:
    1,573
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Re:

    I read on your PC website that a Franchisee has the main title of "Permaculturalist", however you also say they can take on other lawn mowing and gardening work as a regular lawn mowing franchisee. I am trying to get my head around the morals and ethics of that set-up and how it effects other Jims Mowing operators in those areas... i.e, if you have a Jims PC in the area and a Jims Mowing are you splitting work between the 2. Does the Mowing franchisee get first pick at mowing customers and the PC takes up the extras/spillover ?

    I am not sure if you are still an active forum member, if so i would appreciate your reply ?

    Eric
     
  17. Veggie Boy

    Veggie Boy Junior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2003
    Messages:
    410
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Re: Jim's Permaculture

    I too think it is a good point Jez. Permaculture just hasn't hit mainstream yet, but environmental and economic conditions will assist in pushing it further and further that way IMHO. Small scale permaculture (ie on smallish suburban blocks) has gotta be the growth area. I'm fortunate enough to have an acre, but even with that space, which is more than many, I struggle to find suitable planting places. I must admit though that much of this is no doubt due to ignorance on my part and something I can fix by more reading and hopefully completion of a PDC in the next couple of years. Like many others I struggle with fitting everything into these 24 hour days :?

    Baz - your post in this thread has made me even more keen to get out to your place to see what you have been doing. I'm sure it will give me heaps of inspiration. I have lots less space to work with than you - but I'm sure it will be a great help all the same.
     
  18. paradisi

    paradisi Junior Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2005
    Messages:
    665
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Re: Jim's Permaculture

    the sunshine coast is full of puritanical xenophobes only interested in how cheaply they can employ their cleaning staff. (that's my own point of view, it hasn't been scientifically proven yet - but check out https://www.thedaily.com.au/news/2008/no ... told-stop/ for the puritanical side of the story, my own blog sets out the xenophobe side of it)

    Out of 2000 or so people that live in dicky Beach I reckon a dozen are into gardening to help feed the family - probably not permaculture, but starting to think along those lines. Very few are motivated or interested in trying to do anything more than pant a frangipani or a rose.

    Where you are Sonya you might be preaching to the converted? All the hippies and crusties and greenies live in the hinterland (ROFLMAO - - that's meant to be funny not nasty)

    Try and get in touch with some of the landcare and waterways groups and they might be interested in haing you put on a show??? sounds even stranger but try the surf clubs - - maybe they'd be interested?
     
  19. derekh

    derekh Junior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2003
    Messages:
    177
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Re: Jim's Permaculture

    Sorry to come in late on this topic but I see a place for PC in a Jims Mowing franchise or other mowing operation. In doing my Cert III / IV in Horticulture and Landscape, I've met several guys who own their own mowing business or are franchisee's. In summer, business booms but in winter as expected the business drops off. They say that those who have good relationships with their clients arrange to do other jobs in the non-growing season and therefore keep their business active. So, in winter herb spirals, no-dig gardens, chicken tractors, etc can be built. Supporting maintenance documentation would also be required to educate the client.

    Several people here at work have suggested I do garden / PC design for a living but I'll keep my day job and help others where possible. I do believe that PC incorporates an inner attitude towards life that cannot be purchased but we can spread the knowledge.

    Also, after the Jims Tanks debacle I have my doubts over the quality and management of other Jims frachises.

    cheers
    Derek
     
  20. milifestyle

    milifestyle New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2008
    Messages:
    1,573
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Re: Jim's Permaculture

    Is that the same Jims ? I thought that was a different group.... (Half moon tanks wasn't it ?)

    I acknowledge your other points but wonder if current jims lawn and garden operators should be trained (at their discretion) to become PC qualified rather than jims group capitalising on a whole seperate Business offering an almost identical service...
     

Share This Page

-->