It's time to change the rules

Discussion in 'News from around the damp planet' started by eco4560, Oct 31, 2013.

  1. Rick Larson

    Rick Larson Junior Member

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    "There will always be people, who through no fault of their own, are unable to contribute to life in a way that others consider meaningful. Doesn't mean that their lives are without meaning. The challenge for the 'new' society is how we live out compassion and find a place of everyone."

    This is true. Geoff related a story how very old people turn eggs for their community, somewhere in Asia. So everyone could play a role in the community.

    There is room for political discussion Paka, but there is an end to this system. End to the payments. Most of these governments are broke, the climate is changing for the worst, and the energy these economies rely on is about to decline in a big way. If one is too have a chance at a decent life, IMO, one better learn something different from the status quo.

    If one is on payments, or making a living working, use the money to learn something useful while you still have a chance. I wonder what a small Permaculture community would do with an influx of refuges when comminuty members know there is not enough food production to feed so many?
     
  2. Grasshopper

    Grasshopper Senior Member

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    Refugees from a 1st world country with no survival skills would be a concern.
    3rd world refugees would be probably be a great resource of skills and labour for expanding food production.
     
  3. songbird

    songbird Senior Member

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    i don't think half of the people alive will be alive much longer after the system goes down if it fails fairly completely. those who have guns and are willing to use violence to get what they need will be top down feeders until the supply of easy ammunition runs out and they do most of each other in fighting for turf. permaculturists too close to larger cities will run the risk of being overrun if their community is too small and too easy to attack.

    those of us too close to the larger cities will be fair game and likely either enslaved or killed.

    for a small community on the edge of starvation, those who can't work or won't work will likely be encouraged to move on or become mulch. yes, it may be that brutal until the population adjusts to what can be sustained.

    i'd like to think that everything can be peaceful and happy during a long slow decline, but history hasn't shown that to be a common occurance...

    in the meantime i'm collecting books from book sales on every topic i can that may be useful in the future. chemistry, biology, metalurgy, metal-working-blacksmithing, microbiology, physics, electricty, hydraulics, plants, animal care, trapping, cleaning, preserving, ... our library is run by people who haven't a clue about having a good reference section and they are purging the most useful books of the collection so that is giving me chances to fill in gaps. if someone torches the main library i'll at least have references for others to use...
     
  4. Pakanohida

    Pakanohida Junior Member

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    Songbird,
    Mollison made that very apparent to me with regards to the ol' air engine systems, magazines, books, etc.

    Rick,
    Our government wasn't broke till Bush baby Jr. took office; in fact prior to the Saprophyte getting into office and mucking it all up, Clinton had presided over the longest economic expansion in U.S. History and, he reduced the percentage of Americans on welfare to its lowest level in 35 years! Then it all went south with illegal activities which I was never surprised about since the Bush family are WW2 war profiteers with connections to the Nazi's and Auschwitz. Not to mention the work both Bush Sr. & Jr. did for Bin Laden with the Carlye group.

    But I digress, there is going to be no hard fast, collapse, if anything, it will be like the activities that took place in the movie "Earth 2100"
     
  5. Rick Larson

    Rick Larson Junior Member

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    Yep. Wouda coulda shoulda.

    Since I have experience with accounting through owning several businesses, my opinion is there won't be a slow easy way down from this dilemma of spending more than receipts. Complicating the matter is Social Security has borrowed the US Governemnt 2.6 Trillion, that can not be paid back (unless there is a radical political change, and the cure is as bad as the disease in this case, both ending in no money to pay out).

    Next on the US debtors list is The Federal Reserve - a central bank not affiliated with the US Government (other than chairman appointments), at 2.1 Trillion. Then there is a long list of foriegn, state, county, and city governments, including pensions that are hooked in. Yet this government continues to borrow to make up a monster shortfall, instead of lowering spending to less than receipts, which would give hope of paying out these debtors. All in trivial pursuit. Think of this country with no money to pay out Social Security, pensions, and all these governemtns. Think hard about it, because that will happen. Sooner rather than later.

    If this government invested 1/10th of what it spends into food forests, much of the current spending would cease for lack of need... You should at least like that sentence!

    But that isn't going to happen until the collapse is final. Then there won't be a US Government, and probably a lot of other governments will fall too. They will go the way of the former Soviet Union.

    Please read this book: https://www.amazon.com/Collapse-Com...qid=1383588205&sr=8-1&keywords=joseph+tainter
     
  6. Unmutual

    Unmutual Junior Member

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    Also available on youtube for free. Assuming the movie is correct in that we'll see crises after crises(sound familiar?) instead of one big flush down the toilet, then yes, I agree with that too. There's going to be no death knell, just a lot of small rings while humanity gets used to each version of "normal". While ghoulish, I'm using the gun massacre events(Columbine, Sandy Hook, LAX, etc.) to look at the general breakdown in society. They appear to be happening a lot more often these days(could be the old age thing...you know...back in the day things were better), and the only explanation they like to give is "the dude was nuts". Gun control won't help this because I don't think it's a gun issue(not that I'm pro guns or anything).
     
  7. Grasshopper

    Grasshopper Senior Member

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    The Easter Islanders didnt all get together and say wow it looks like we only have a few trees left we better change what we are doing.
    It was driven by old men with traditional values, concerned about job creation and worship of the idols right till the end.
     
  8. Pakanohida

    Pakanohida Junior Member

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    Yep, same movie, very good one to make a person think.
     
  9. Pakanohida

    Pakanohida Junior Member

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    You could say the same for the Sahara desert which the Romans & Egyptians destroyed for the buildings of the respective countries mentioned.
     
  10. eco4560

    eco4560 New Member

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  11. eco4560

    eco4560 New Member

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  12. helenlee

    helenlee Junior Member

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    All things are self limiting. And if this man is what the majority of the people have chosen to represent their beliefs & ideals, values & goals, then I would suggest we have entered the stage of final descent into annihilation. And that is probably not such a bad thing. With humans & their busy little hands & their short attention spans out of the way, the remaining species on this amazing planet may be able get on with living in what is left of paradise.
    When we have a former leader of the Liberal Party saying Abbott is "a dangerous politician" "unpredictable" & that "the whole party is very much on the extreme right" you know we have a problem Houston (to slightly mangle the quote) :)
    If we're going to hell we might as well gallop in with swords drawn as wander in a bedraggled bunch of nomads.
    Alala!
     
  13. Grasshopper

    Grasshopper Senior Member

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    I might just die of embarrassment as we march into hell
     
  14. eco4560

    eco4560 New Member

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    I keep praying we end up with a double dissolution over the carbon tax bill….. Pretty please….
     
  15. Grahame

    Grahame Senior Member

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  16. Grasshopper

    Grasshopper Senior Member

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  17. eco4560

    eco4560 New Member

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