It's time to change the rules

Discussion in 'News from around the damp planet' started by eco4560, Oct 31, 2013.

  1. eco4560

    eco4560 New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2009
    Messages:
    5,925
    Likes Received:
    8
    Trophy Points:
    0
    How Science is telling us all to revolt.
     
  2. 9anda1f

    9anda1f Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2006
    Messages:
    3,046
    Likes Received:
    199
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    E Washington, USA
    Climate:
    Semi-Arid Shrub Steppe (BsK)
    A most excellent article! Straight and to the point, the alarm is being sounded.

    (emphasis is mine)
     
  3. eco4560

    eco4560 New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2009
    Messages:
    5,925
    Likes Received:
    8
    Trophy Points:
    0
    So I'm thinking to myself - am I doing enough? I'm not into throwing rocks at police or writing graffiti on power plants or even dropping humanure on the front step of city hall. Is growing stuff in my backyard, shopping at the local market, making compost and having solar panels enough? Today it feels like a cop out and that my grandkids (should humanity survive that long) will look back and say "Gran, you lazy old coot, why weren't you doing something more to change the system?"

    My life is still probably too comfortable. I suspect I use the fact that I have kids at home to stay 'conventional'. But I'm getting close to when they'll fly the nest (I hope). So will I have the nerve then to put in a compost loo, take myself off the electric and water grid, pop a few WOOFers in the spare rooms, and attempt to grow enough to feed the whole neighbourhood? Or whatever my version of 'revolt' needs to look like.

    Sorry - thinking out loud. Am I the only one thinking like this? Do any of you feel like you are doing enough? Is it just that green guilt is bottomless?
     
  4. Grasshopper

    Grasshopper Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2010
    Messages:
    1,016
    Likes Received:
    9
    Trophy Points:
    38
    As Billy Bragg sang
    The revolution is only an ethical hair cut away.
    You can only do what you can do, the cornucopians have money, power,influence and fear of change but they dont have time, logic, maths or physics on their side.
    Prepare for the inevitable collapse and make it look like fun* is probably the best weapon.

    *its not hard
    Art of War
    https://www.goodreads.com/author/quotes/1771.Sun_Tzu
     
  5. Terra

    Terra Moderator

    Joined:
    May 16, 2007
    Messages:
    757
    Likes Received:
    23
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Im thinking the same Eco , the hole is a deep one all we can do is what is within our means .

    Ive been away for a week on the trip i skim read (The Coming Famine by Julian Cribb) again , its how the population rise and climate change will affect food ,water, land ect lots of info we never hear about eg a small rise in temperature hammers the rice crop and a couple of savage days at the wrong time will slash the crop to zero .

    Trouble is the information just isnt getting to the public in a way that grabs attention , i met a sensible bloke at the 21st party we were at , about 45yrs old 4 late teen kids he is a carpenter certainly not rich but doing it well , i started throwing a few facts at him he didnt take long to go pale .

    I just dont understand the big secret do the politicians think this will just go away .

    100million more people each year or easier to understand 10000+ an hour , major land loss to salt , desert , mines , roads , cities ect ect even if you cant believe in climate change there is enormous trouble coming for the young ones , all this fantastic "New Oil" being found has already falling behind the population bomb . We are pretty sheltered in australia take a look at satellite photos of the earth at night time , we are a black patch compared with above the equator . Its estimated in 100 yrs standing room only , of course nature will take control again long before that happens .

    Mankind has done a LOT of damage in the last 100yrs .

    Problem for the scientists is they all dont have permanent jobs they compete for grants so can be bullied gagged ect they just want to do what they trained for.

    To change the rules (Savory has touched on this) the influential young ones must join worldwide in their millions and drive this .
     
  6. Grasshopper

    Grasshopper Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2010
    Messages:
    1,016
    Likes Received:
    9
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Without denial the banks stop lending and people stop borrowing, if there is no profit or no way to pay back the loan the game ends quickly.
    The delusion doesn't thrive on logic and facts.
     
  7. Pakanohida

    Pakanohida Junior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2011
    Messages:
    2,984
    Likes Received:
    20
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Didn't you all notice yet? The younglings are starting to, like the 16 year old that won the international google science fair for cancer detection.
     
  8. Unmutual

    Unmutual Junior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2012
    Messages:
    599
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Teachers and parents have a corner on the youngen market. Either way, it falls back to education.

    Revolutions don't have a good track record for improving anything. Personally, I think evolution is better since it's slow and steady. How do you speed up evolution without ruining it? Pissing off the norms by throwing immature compost at them isn't going to do any good, it will just make matters worse. If we move away from capitalism/consumerism in any large mass, then those same people will already be anxious because they'll be losing power and authority.

    I'm just going to change my life and try to positively influence the future generations of my family and hopefully give them enough infrastructure so they can have a peaceful and pleasant life in an energy decent/warming world. While there does seem to be some positive movement within governments, it will likely be too slow or ineffectual in the long run(just like government is now). I guess my point is this: take care of your own, that's about all you can realistically do. If you help others along the way, so much the better.
     
  9. mischief

    mischief Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2009
    Messages:
    1,665
    Likes Received:
    94
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Gender:
    Female
    Occupation:
    s/e
    Location:
    South Waikato New ZeLeand
    Climate:
    Cool mountain
    I've swung from thinking we are too late to make any noticeable difference to yes we have a chance.
    I didnt think anything I could do was enough, now I think I Have to start making the changes I can make because I Can make them.
    In doing so, it shows others that this isnt as hard as it first appears and you dont have to reduce yourself to abject poverty etc... in the process.
    One of my friends recently decided that they Could have a vege garden, where they didnt before due to it needing to be watered. They always felt guilty about watering the garden, til they realised that they could use their bath water for this instead of wasting a valuable resource. Now their daughter is doing the same.
    I'm sure there are people who have responded to what you are doing that you will never hear of or from again and so never know about.

    There have been many 'only ones' who got off their behinds and simply got on with it and change happened seemingly all by itself.
    One man in France planted one tree each day til one day there was a huge forest again. Ghandi changed the face of the British Empire. Emily Pankhurst changed the lot of women beyond what she probably imagined.
    Just three examples of different types of action in different spheres,probably not the best to point out but they are the ones people are familiar with and do show each person had integrity and went with the idea of how best to change deplorable conditions.

    One person working on their own is never going to be enough, but you arent just one person, you are one of many now turning in a new direction. Your kids see, so do your other family members and friends, neighbours and workmates. This changes how they perceive things.
    All action starts with a thought. I am a firm believer in the theory of the 100th monkey. If we can get that critical mass needed in time, it should happen like magic.

    This probably sounds nutty but here goes, I think it matters How you think about these things. Not long ago, a friend explained to me their meditation practice of seeking present moment awareness. (shhh, dont roll your eyes). Have you noticed how often your mind throws reasons why you cannot achieve a given goal, or reasons why you should not do that? I found it interesting and alittle shocking just how much garbage was being tossed around inside my tiny little mind, so I started to practise the same system of spending alittle time each day-not long, 20 minutes in the morning, stilling the raving lunatic inside.
    I think this is the real reason I found the septic tank I didnt know was there, that if not found could have caused thousands of dollars in damage to the truck delivering my water tank... I am convinced there are spin offs like this when you let go of the reasons why not and get on with the jobs at hand.
    We have two- change ourselves and repair our planet.

    Okay, you think this has nothing to do with changing our current global crisis? Thinking dim thoughts arent going to change the fact that Fukushima waste going into the ocean is destroying it.....or are they?
    If 'we' can come up with an idea that caused the problem, 'we' can come up with one that will solve it.
    Avoiding it will not make it go away.(and no, I personally dont know what the solution is to this one, but I do know most people put it in the too hard basket and dont think about it).

    We've all heard how humans only use 10 % of their brain capacity. If we make a start with changing ourselves in this area at the same time we are making changes in our environment, this can only be a good thing, leading to a more positive expectation level.(not really finding the right words here)
    Our greed started in our own minds. We as a species caused these problem, so we as a species need to change ourselves as much as we need to repair our damaged planet and that is something we all can do.
     
  10. eco4560

    eco4560 New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2009
    Messages:
    5,925
    Likes Received:
    8
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Most of the time I'm pretty chuffed to be an Aussie. But then I read stuff like this and wanna go live somewhere sensible that gets that climate change is the greatest moral challenge of our time.

    Particularly when I read it on the same day that I learn that Clive Palmer is now MY 'representative' in government. I don't think he gets climate change!

    Terra people will stop inviting you to parties if you keep scaring the guests with facts!

    Mischief 100% with you on meditation. I've been making it a regular part of my life for the past few years and have gained a lot of insight into the destructive nature of my internal thought processes and am starting to figure out that I can actually be in charge of what goes on in my head. It does help to see with clarity the reality of a situation rather than the image you project onto it.

    And I'm pinching Unmutual's immature compost saying. That's a great way to get around the ick factor of human poo!

    Anyway - time to meditate and then go do something productive.
     
  11. Pakanohida

    Pakanohida Junior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2011
    Messages:
    2,984
    Likes Received:
    20
    Trophy Points:
    38
    David Sazuki...

    He's got the plan, and "on trial" for it.
     
  12. Rick Larson

    Rick Larson Junior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2013
    Messages:
    743
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    It won't matter the temperature if all the trees are cut and soil eroded away.

    I think the lefties/socialists are wasting too much time trying to wrestle money from the righties/fascists who made money by destroying the planet's ecology. The lefties are in opposition of the money more than destroying the ecology, and want the money so they/everyone can have the same comforts (not possible). At least, these are the lefties I know around here. The loudest ones are faker ecologists only hollering for more money

    The political effort should be on Global Drying and the reasons for it. But heck, I think it is far too late to change the ecological outcome of the planet... Good luck, you are all going to need it.
     
  13. eco4560

    eco4560 New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2009
    Messages:
    5,925
    Likes Received:
    8
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I think the very nature of the whole left / right thing is just wrong. We are so stuck in the current mindset that we can't even begin to imagine the possibilities of how else we might work together as a society. Right now I'm thinking we need 'life raft' strategy in Australia. We are going to come down with a very big bump.
     
  14. Pakanohida

    Pakanohida Junior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2011
    Messages:
    2,984
    Likes Received:
    20
    Trophy Points:
    38
    The fact that people refer to the left as "socialists" and the right as "fascists" is one huge problem unto itself. People don't realize that the USA had & has social obligations to the people that were voted into law that has NOTHING to do with Socialism. What it really comes down to is this:

    [​IMG]
     
  15. Rick Larson

    Rick Larson Junior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2013
    Messages:
    743
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    If the poor people are not getting payments from the rich people, or rather, if the poor people are poor because they choose to be poor, living off the land so to speak, then we wouldn't have such problems. But the rich people wanted to be voted into office, so they get the poor people hooked on payments, now these people are forced to vote for them yet again, because they have lost the ability to take care of themselves. Everybody is hooked into this system, by law. Try to figure that out!

    So there is something much better beyond the three classes of people as desribed by the two political parties (here in the USA anyway). This is why I am studying Permaculture, my emphasis is now learning the mainframe techniques, but I want to concentrate on setting up small communiries once I have put this mainframe to test. The lessons are in the PDM.

    I have recieved more plantings in the mail from Oikos, so I'm off to do more planting in the wild land!
     
  16. eco4560

    eco4560 New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2009
    Messages:
    5,925
    Likes Received:
    8
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Happy planting and pondering. I'll be weeding (well - harvesting volunteer native herbs to make compost) and wondering myself this weekend. Communal living is calling to me too...
     
  17. Pakanohida

    Pakanohida Junior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2011
    Messages:
    2,984
    Likes Received:
    20
    Trophy Points:
    38
    And what of say the lone truck driver who has Paranoid Schizophrenia, undiagnosed. Then one day, has a melt down, and hides in the woods homeless with no food till his family find him, take him in, and get him started in the "system" so he can get healthy. After all, his family can't take him in with kids, credit card debt from living under the idea of we should all have stuff, and debt. Eventually the man is on medicine, but he can never work again. What of those people?

    Or the woman who loses her job, her COBRA, and suddenly is so depressed the person hears voices that tell her to harm herself.

    The world isn't as cut and dry as media makes it, and when I read bullshit about these people getting "hand outs", I think of the people I know like above, and those way worse off than that.

    America, in my life time, was better then it is now, and social programs are not the problem.
     
  18. eco4560

    eco4560 New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2009
    Messages:
    5,925
    Likes Received:
    8
    Trophy Points:
    0
    There will always be people, who through no fault of their own, are unable to contribute to life in a way that others consider meaningful. Doesn't mean that their lives are without meaning. The challenge for the 'new' society is how we live out compassion and find a place of everyone.
     
  19. Grasshopper

    Grasshopper Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2010
    Messages:
    1,016
    Likes Received:
    9
    Trophy Points:
    38
    The only unquestioned socialism is when its directed at the rich
    Bank bail outs,negative gearing when you have more houses than you need,superannuation breaks when you have more money than you need,30% socialist rebate on your private health insurance,$75,000 only if your filthy rich and are having a baby,heaps of socialist rebates for your private school education.
     
  20. Pakanohida

    Pakanohida Junior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2011
    Messages:
    2,984
    Likes Received:
    20
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Agreed wise one.
     

Share This Page

-->