Interested in opinions on hydroponics

Discussion in 'Planting, growing, nurturing Plants' started by fiona, Mar 5, 2011.

  1. Pakanohida

    Pakanohida Junior Member

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    My river has Sturgeon along with salmon at various times of the year in it, I wish I could raise them! (The sturgeon)

    However, I think by this point, it should be noted the fish are not the main crop of Aquaponics, the plants are. You can set up good aquaponics with carp, koi, & / or goldfish and never harvest them. The fish water combined with EM in the water, and what has attached to the expressed shale or other medium is what provides nutrients to the plants.
     
  2. sweetpea

    sweetpea Junior Member

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    Some clay balls aren't going to provide what many feet deep of soil can provide. Some tomato plant roots will go down as far as they are tall, that can be taller than a person. The fungal and bacterial relationships cannot survive under water, so it's not the same bacteria, nor the same fungi, very small source of minerals.

    SOP, so great that you told your manager that! Rock on!!! The plants do "know" the difference. Their immune systems barely function on chemical fertilizers and insects chew them to pieces, so more need for sprays. Your manager really ought to find some scientific citations to back up what he/she is saying, and they won't find any. People use their eyes to determine whether a plant is healthy or food has the proper nutrition, and that's like judging a book by it's cover. it's just not accurate.

    And a lot of the aqua/hydroponics are grown under artificial light, that's also changing the way plants grow. It's not the end of the world to grow things this way, but it's not necessarily the best way.

    How healthy is it for us as humans to have our hands in fish poop water every day? Humans have survived on Earth being exposed to soil poop and the animals we've always lived among, but we need our skin in dry air, and our immune systems are prepared for that.

    Humans don't function well being in contact with water and poop for hours every day. We get nail fungus from too-wet conditions, including wearing rubber gloves, and infections in cuts from bacteria we can't defend as well against.

    They found that when there was the Gold Rush in California in 1848, the only people who got rich were the ones selling equipment to the miners, and people providing transportation to and from, not the miners themselves. If we learn from history, the people making the most money will be the ones selling the equipment. :)
     
  3. Pakanohida

    Pakanohida Junior Member

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    Sweetpea, that is a lot of supposition such as the lighting issue. 1 word, greenhouse.

    Secondly, watch that video I posted for Purple Pear, or view https://www.permaculturenews.org/store/cartview.html?id=6

    Lastly, as my esteemed collegue from Down Under said... "it does show potential! I remain concerned by the cost and impact of the infrustructure required to achieve the results" which is utterly fair. It's about the approach & use.

    I have seen aquaponic setups that are totally outdoors such as:

    [​IMG]

    to more complex ones that include streams, waterfalls or flow forms.





    On a side note.. wtb cheap flowforms.. and am tinkering with a way to make such.
     
  4. sweetpea

    sweetpea Junior Member

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    >>>>Sweetpea, that is a lot of supposition such as the lighting issue. 1 word, greenhouse.

    It's not supposition. I have a green house and it doesn't have any artificial light. The hydroponic setups that are showing up where I am involve big warehouses that require artificial light. Small home setups may or may not require it, but it does not change the lack of nutritional value from being grown in a limited growing medium like fish poop.

    >>>>Lastly, as my esteemed collegue from Down Under said... "it does show potential! I >>>>remain concerned by the cost and impact of the infrustructure required to achieve >>>>the results" which is utterly fair. It's about the approach & use.

    I thought we were busting our rear ends to make it healthier for us, to get the best food we can get. I don't see how just having a better "approach and use" can change nutrition *s*
     
  5. purplepear

    purplepear Junior Member

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    Thank you sweetpea - now I may have trouble getting my hat on.

    For me there is no substitute for humus rich organic soil for growing nourishing food. Leave the fish poo farming for right near the end when we have no soil or fresh air. It still does show potential.
     
  6. S.O.P

    S.O.P Moderator

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    I'm thinking aquaponics as a biomass and companion plant grower, with a smattering of sensitive plants that need regular watering.

    The growth rates are astounding compared to other methods.
     
  7. sweetpea

    sweetpea Junior Member

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    Hey, PP, how's it going? We might be halfway there, I don't think there's fresh air anywhere anymore :)
     
  8. Pakanohida

    Pakanohida Junior Member

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    Maybe because you are concerned with commercial hydroponics where I am coming from the point of view of using Aquaponics in a stacked use environment. Plenty of people do Aquaponics without high intensity lighting sources but they use the largest high intensity source of them all, the sun. Many people commercially do Aquaponics without high intensity lighting, such as raising carp in a rice paddy. Or Langostine shrimp with veggies.. and so on.
     
  9. Pakanohida

    Pakanohida Junior Member

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    I was thinking about what Sweet pea said, and I found this wonderful Terra person with a wonderful aquaponics setup here...

    https://backyardaquaponics.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=12070

    I suspect in CA, you also run the problem with the marijuana growers doing things hydroponic vs. aquaponic which could be a reason for the shift... ..mostly because they don't know or understand. Then again to many growers of that plant it is all about profit profit profit.

    Where as, I keep thinking about the several aquaponic dvd's from PRI, 2 of which I own, which shows commercial grows using aquaponics outdoors.
     
  10. Pakanohida

    Pakanohida Junior Member

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    >ahem<

    Your welcome. :) ;)
     
  11. Terra

    Terra Moderator

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    Terra has two experimental systems going and will continue to do more , yes they use power and yes the bacterial / fungal soil mix isnt perfect . But i can tell you i live in a 500mm average rainfall area ive lived here for 25 yrs ALWAYS had water in excess NOT this year . I moved my house fence out set up a mandala only have pumpkins on one circle no way i can start it up until probably June , the crops in my raised beds will finish and wont be replanted until it rains , point being i used to spend half the year worrying about getting bogged and belted with rain and digging drains to get rid of water , looking at the rain records we have a steady decline which i believe will continue .

    The purists will say plant trees well post 2005 bushfire i fenced of all my creek lines scrub patches around 200 acres super dense regeneration is astounding , also 10000 tubestock in other areas and quite a bit of direct seeding i would have millions of new trees on my 1165 acre place and the rain is still dropping off .

    I could run 30 to 40 Sq meters on 1000L a week during the dry season and 100L or nothing due to rain top up during our wet / cool season . I currently use around 300L a week in my two systems a bit more if its been hot all week i could improve on that if i had to with some small changes.

    Its easy for people to knock Aquaponics that have water i was in that situation 6mths ago , and no i dont want a ear bashing from climate change knockers im damn sure its here , i can grow lots on very little water so its a vital wheel in my food production system , but of course wont replace everything .

    So it has a place for those that are interested particularly if water is an issue .

    I dont mind fish poop or horse or chook or cow .

    Got a bit off Track :p


    https://www.backyardaquaponics.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=12070

    https://www.aquaponics.net.au/forum/showthread.php/5027-Terras-No2?p=63585#post63585
     
  12. purplepear

    purplepear Junior Member

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    I see now it was your comment Pakman but it does sound better coming from the delightful sweetpea so thanks to both of you. Terra I hope you have not been offended by comments I have made as I agree it may have a place but I believe it is not first place. Do you ensure that manures are properly composted before adding to the soil?
     
  13. Terra

    Terra Moderator

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    Its ok PP Terras skin is pretty thick , i was pretty hot from bashing around in 40C heat people are just stating thier opinion and thats ok .

    I know what the problem here is , the house is built on a gravel hill so guess where all the water goes , need to shift the house 300meters sth west or east or nth or move zone 1 way out there

    Ive been around long enough to know the basics plus a bit , always more to learn of course . All the manures go through large worm compounds along with anything else i can find , my topsoil makes great cement gravel .

    I have mostly raised beds as i use silt from dams mixed with compost what i should do with my mandala before i go any further is dig out the top half metre and back fill with decent material i have been doing this with my fruit trees with terrific results compared to just letting them tough it out through the rocks . Big job though 20 to 30 tonne to shift and replace .
    regards Rob
     
  14. Pakanohida

    Pakanohida Junior Member

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    I understand and agree. Sweetpea is sweet like that.
     
  15. sweetpea

    sweetpea Junior Member

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    I don't mean to be knocking hydroponics for greens, I'm just saying, step back, try to be objective. I think I've noticed over the years that if a lot of equipment is promoted as what's necessary to grow food, it's suspect. Hence the success of Permaculture, BTW, with its main message being, Nature's got it covered, you don't need the stuff. :) And now I ask myself the question, do I own the stuff, or does the stuff own me? Am I a slave to its upkeep?


    Paka, how sweet of you to say! I'm not too worried about the nutritional value of marijuana *woo hoo*. But I think it does matter how nutritional our food is, especially our greens, because we folks who were not brought up in an Asian culture don't tend to eat greens 2 or 3 times a day. I try, I'm doing green smoothies as often as I can, but if the solar array doesn't have enough left over for the blender, well, the menu changes!!

    PP, always the gentleman :)
     
  16. Pakanohida

    Pakanohida Junior Member

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    I think the reason you & I see so much plastics marketed for growing food isn't exactly for food. When I lived in Berkeley, CA at the time of medical marijuana becoming legal I saw multiple hydroponic stores go up in the course of a year. Now, over a decade later I know of multiple hydroponic shops in every major town, simply because, IMO, the medical marijuana illegal grow thing is as popular as making moonshine up here, if not more so. My own town this past month caught 2 teenagers with an impressive grow in an apartment growing illegally.

    Now, a little about the nutrion of marijuana seeds....

    30g of hemp seed have 174 calories.
    11g protien
    1 g dietery fiber
    14g total fat, but only 1g saturated fats.
    Also a good source of iron 16% ( by USDA recommended values)
    Magnesium 48% ( by USDA recommended values)
    Zinc 16% ( by USDA recommended values)

    So where was I... ahh yes. Marijuana aside, I understand where you are coming from with the plethora of new hydro shops, but like I was saying, I see it as more a reaction from the boom town Medical Marijuana growth... ..especially since you and I literally live in-between the "Emerald Triangle."

    I totally understand your thoughts of do I own it, or does it own me. Especially after Geoff Lawton answering my question of late. Have a great day Sweet Pea. :)
     

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