Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

Discussion in 'The big picture' started by sushil yadav, Jul 7, 2005.

  1. sushil yadav

    sushil yadav Junior Member

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    I want to thank the moderators for moving this thread to "The Big Picture" sub forum.

    When I had posted the thread in 2005 there were different sub forums......The present categories did not exist.....I had posted in a forum whose name I do not remember.....From there the thread moved to "Planting, Growing and Nurturing" which was not the appropriate forum for the thread.

    "The Big Picture" is the right category.

    Thanks!
     
  2. 9anda1f

    9anda1f Administrator Staff Member

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    Wow, this great thread is timeless!
     
  3. sushil yadav

    sushil yadav Junior Member

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    sub rosa,

    Thanks for your post.......I have read very few books in my life.....I have read a little bit about the views of Derrick Jensen, John Zerzan and some other Anti-Technology, Anti-Industrialization, Anti-Progress, Growth, Development writers on the net.

    It is very ironic that we have got thousands of books on environment in Industrial society and there is hardly any environment left on earth......In Agrarian Society there were hardly any books on environment and yet there was millions of times more environment.....Hunter_Gatherer Society did not need books to save environment......Millions of animal species did not need books to save environment.

    Books are a creation of Industrialization [which is also the cause of environmental destruction]......They came into existence when man made the Printing Press and started Logging Industry / Paper Industry that supplied large amounts of paper for books and the Transportation Industry which transported books all over the world.

    The biggest teacher is nature.....Millions of animal species destroy environment only for food.....They do not destroy environment for thousands of consumer goods and services.....This is the biggest lesson to learn.

    I also write very little....I have written only one article in my entire life , the one you have read here in permaculture forum.....It is only 25 - 30 pages in print....That is all I have written in my entire life....It is a summary of what I learned over a period of 15 - 20 years.....I have posted this article in many forums and blogs.....If you do a search on the topic "Industrial Society destroys Mind and Environment" you can see all the places where I have posted on the net.

    I have spent many years in solitude.....I like silence, solitude and nature.....Unfortunately I have lived most of my life in Delhi which is a toxin for me.....Noise, Crowds, Traffic, Pollution, Cement and Concrete everywhere.

    I like meditation and the state of thoughtlessness.....For about 20 years I have observed the "mind" and the "largescale destruction of environment" that is going on every moment.....That is how I came to write my article "Industrial Society destroys Mind and Environment" which is mainly about two things - mind and environment.
     
  4. sushil yadav

    sushil yadav Junior Member

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    Today the entire world is collectively involved in destruction of environment but the biggest role in this process of destruction was played by Western Civilization.

    The West was the first to start Industrial Revolution and travel on the destructive path of Industrialization and Consumerism.......It then forced western lifestyle on its colonies in Asia, Africa and America whose cultures it had already destroyed during the era of Colonization.

    The West took the entire world on the wrong path of Industrialization, Consumerism, Growth Rate, Economy Rate and GDP that has led to destruction of most of the Biodiversity and Ecosystems......The very things that created and sustained all life on earth for millions of years.

    The West started Industrial Revolution and promoted Materialism because it focused on "Reason"......The East had focused on "Subjective Experience" for thousands of years which led to "Spiritual Development".

    The West spent its time and energy on "reason" which led to Science, Technology and Industrialization / Material Development....The West has got very little knowledge of Spiritual Development.....Very little concept of peaceful states of mind / peaceful subjective experience.

    The Aborigines of Australia would not have started the Industrial Revolution.

    Red Indians / Native Americans would not have started the Industrial Revolution.

    The Africans are very unlikely to have started the Industrial Revolution.

    These cultures were quite happy and content with their Rituals and Spiritual Practices.

    In India people had made efforts for Spiritual Development for thousands of years.....They developed methods and techniques for making the mind quiet, tranquil and peaceful......The knowledge of subjective experience led to the fields of yoga, meditation and pranayam [breath control].......Material Development has destroyed the planet, If any kind of development was needed it was Spiritual Development.

    Human work should fulfill the basic needs of food, clothing and shelter.....It should not turn into overwork or destructive work.....If extra time is available to people and society after basic needs have been fulfilled it should be used for Spiritual Practices, Art and Culture.
     
  5. Unmutual

    Unmutual Junior Member

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    Humans have been destroying their environment well before the internal combustion engine, industrialization just made it easier and quicker. The problem isn't western civilization, industrialism, capitalism or consumerism. The problem is us. We need the Earth to survive, the Earth doesn't need us for its survival(sounds like an interesting book...the Earth forces the evolution of humans to thin out the other species, then gets rid of us..if only I were a writer). The human problem will be taken care of in one way or another, either with our near or total extinction from us polluting everything, or from humans finally realizing that nature is all we need. I guess you could throw in some other scenarios in there like a dinosaur extinction event, but that's unlikely.

    It may take the Earth some time to recuperate from the mess humans made, but eventually it will. The point is, we're the problem and saving the planet isn't the issue..the planet will survive no matter what we do, and life will begin to evolve again(over millions of years of course). So it's not really about saving the planet and life on the planet, it's about saving the human race. One question I ask myself a lot is are humans worth saving? We seem to repeat the same mistakes all the time anyway. Once this silly oil is dried up and we go back to slow systems of energy, we'll probably just find some new way to screw things up again in a couple hundred years because it's an invention that makes things easier.
     
  6. mouseinthehouse

    mouseinthehouse Junior Member

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    Unmutual, I couldn't agree more!
     
  7. sushil yadav

    sushil yadav Junior Member

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    An Industrial Society cannot be Vegan or Vegetarian........Only a Non-Industrial Society can be Vegan or Vegetarian....Only a Non-Industrial Society can come close to being Vegan or Vegetarian.......Only a non-industrial society can save animals.

    There can be no environmental solutions in an Industrial Society because Industrial Activity itself is the cause of environmental destruction.

    Industrial Society kills animals for food......Industrial Society also kills wild animals in forests and fish in the oceans with Industrial Activity [on the land and in the sea].

    Those who are not killing animals for food are still killing animals, directly or indirectly, for production and use of thousands of consumer goods and services.

    A Vegan "Industrial Society" is an oxymoron.....an impossibility......an absurdity.

    A Vegetarian "Industrial Society" is an oxymoron.....an impossibility......an absurdity.

    If millions of people become vegan / vegetarian in Industrial Society it is not going to save animals.......Even if billions of people become vegan / vegetarian in Industrial Society it is not going to save animals......Even if the entire population becomes vegan / vegetarian in Industrial Society it is not going to save animals.

    Industrial Society is killing Trillions of animals in Industrial Slaughter Houses.......Industrial Fishing is killing Trillions of Fish in the oceans......As long as Industrial Society exists all this killing will continue.

    In Industrial Society animals are killed for food in Slaughter Houses and Wild Animals are killed when Forests are destroyed for production of thousands of consumer goods and services.

    Even if killing of animals for food is totally stopped in Industrial Society [which is an impossibility of course] killing of animals will still continue because Trillions of Wild Animals in Forests are being killed by Industrial Activity for production of consumer goods and services......Trillions of Fish are being killed in the oceans due to movement of hundreds of thousands of Industrial Ships and discharge of trillions of tonnes of Industrial Waste into oceans......The oceans have turned warmer and acidic, there are oxygen-deprived dead zones in oceans.....All this has resulted in killing of corals and a large number of marine creatures.

    Wild Animals in forests and Fish in the Oceans are being killed every moment by Energy Generation Industry, Mining Industry, Logging Industry, Manufacturing Industry, Construction Industry, Oil Drilling Industry, Oil Refining Industry, Transportation Industry, Millions of kilometers of Rail and Road Network, Millions of kilometers of Air Routes and Shipping Lanes.

    Moreover we cannot save environment by saving only animals.....We have to save all biodiversity and ecosystems.....We have to save Animals, Trees, Air, water and Land.....We have to save Forests, Rivers, Lakes, Oceans, Air/ Atmosphere, Fertile Soil, Underground Water.....everything......Which can only happen in a non-industrial society.......In the absence of Industrial Machines only limited destruction of environment was possible.

    Hunter_Gatherer Society and Agrarian Society were closest to being Vegan / Vegetarian because the number of animals they killed was very limited......There was no Industrial Activity, so killing of animals by Industrial Activity was absent.....And the number of animals they could kill for food was very limited, very small, millions of times less than animals killed by Industrial Society.

    A Vegan "Industrial Society" is an oxymoron.....an impossibility......an absurdity.

    A Vegetarian "Industrial Society" is an oxymoron.....an impossibility......an absurdity.

    .
    .

    Every Citizen of Industrial Society is a serial killer of Nature……..Every Citizen of Industrial Society is a serial killer of animals, trees, air, water and soil.

    In Industrial Society millions of people are killing Nature directly [through Industrial Activity]…….Billions of people are killing Nature indirectly [by buying and selling consumer goods and services produced by Industrial Activity].

    Industrial Activity kills billions of Animals and Trees every day…..Billions of tonnes of solid, liquid and gaseous Industrial waste kills the Soil, Rivers, Oceans and Air every day.

    Citizens of Industrial Society are using Hundreds / Thousands of Consumer Goods and Services.... All Consumer Goods and Services are produced by killing Nature…..by killing Animals, Trees, Air, Water and Land……directly or indirectly.

    Raw material for Industry is obtained by Mining and Logging companies by destroying Forests….by killing Animals, Trees and Soil……. Manufacturing Industry, Energy Generation Industry, Transportation Industry, Recycling Industry and others produce Billions of Tonnes of Metal Waste, Plastic Waste, Chemical waste, Gaseous Waste, eWaste and Nuclear Waste that kills Air, Water and Soil every day.

    If we divide total number of Animals and Trees killed every day by total Industrial Population we get per-capita killing of Animals and Trees.

    If we divide billions of tonnes of solid, liquid and gaseous Industrial Waste produced by Industrial Activity every day by total Industrial Population we get a measure of per-capita killing of Air, water and Soil.

    If we divide Billions of acres of Fertile Soil killed by Cement, Concrete and Asphalt by total Industrial Population we get per-capita killing of Fertile Soil.

    Every Citizen of Industrial Society is a serial killer of Nature….Those who produce consumer goods and services …….Those who sell consumer goods and services…….Those who buy consumer goods and services…….They are all are serial killers of nature.




    Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment
     
  8. sushil yadav

    sushil yadav Junior Member

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    All problems of Industrial Society are unsolvable because Industrialization itself is the cause of problems.....Exponential increase in environmental destruction, incidence of cancer, obesity and war/ violence.......Industrialization is the cause of all these problems.

    It is important to understand why millions of people are trying to solve all these problems when they can never be solved.

    Here is the answer - Billions of people who are not producing food in Industrial Society have to be kept engaged in some work or activity....People would go crazy without work....Therefore unnecessary, meaningless, futile and destructive jobs and professions are created by Industrial Society to keep the Urban Population occupied.

    In Hunter_Gatherer Society the entire population was engaged in searching for food.....In Agrarian Society almost the entire population was engaged in producing food [hardly 1 - 2% of population was not producing food].

    In Industrial Society 50% of world population is growing food for entire population.....The remaining 50% population is engaged in extra, destructive and unnecessary work....[In America only 5% of population is producing food, That is why America is the Mother of all unnecessary and destructive work in this world].

    The population that does not produce food is engaged in Production and Marketing of thousands of consumer goods and services, Tourism Industry, Entertainment Industry, Sports Industry, Military Industrial Complex and All kinds of unnecessary research.

    Millions of people are doing unnecessary, meaningless and futile research in Industrial Society in hundreds of fields.

    Millions of people in Industrial Society are trying to save Environment which is not possible because Industrial Activity itself is the cause of large scale environmental destruction.

    Millions of people in Industrial Society are trying to cure Obesity which is impossible because Obesity is a result of Industrialization.....A result of the switch over from physical work to mental work and easy availability of billions of tonnes of ready-made food.

    Millions of people in Industrial Society are trying to cure Cancer which is not possible because Industrialization itself is the cause of cancer.....Industrial Activity has contaminated air, water and soil with billions of tonnes of solid, liquid and gaseous carcinogens.

    Millions of people in Industrial Society are working with Peace Organizations trying to make the world peaceful.....This is an impossibility because Military Industrial Complex is promoting war and violence by producing and selling billions of tonnes of weapons all over the world.

    .
    .

    Hundreds of professions and millions of jobs have been created in the name of solving the problems of Industrial Society.

    The solutions will of course never come because Industrialization itself is the cause of problems.

    Millions of people are happy because they are getting jobs and salaries......Governments are happy because they can claim they are doing all they can to solve global problems.

    Meanwhile the problems continue getting bigger and bigger day by day, moment by moment.

    .
    .

    Industrial Society has destroyed most of the biodiversity and ecosystems on earth.

    Industrialization was the biggest crime on earth....The biggest act of killing, murder and terrorism on earth.

    This planet can only sustain "Food Searching" or "Food Producing" Societies.

    Hunter_Gatherer Society was sustainable.....Agrarian Society was sustainable.....The question of Industrial Society being sustainable doesn't arise.

    We cannot save environment by destroying more of it.....We cannot save environment by destroying it for thousands of consumer goods and services in addition to food, clothing and shelter.


    Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment
     
  9. Grahame

    Grahame Senior Member

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    What's your point sushil?
     
  10. sushil yadav

    sushil yadav Junior Member

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    It is explained in the post very clearly.
     
  11. Grahame

    Grahame Senior Member

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    What do you propose to do about it? Can you offer any road-map to take us forward?
     
  12. sushil yadav

    sushil yadav Junior Member

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    Moving forward was the biggest crime on earth.....The biggest act of killing, murder and terrorism on earth which led to destruction of most of the biodiversity and ecosystems....We are in the present mess only because we moved forward.

    Progress, Growth and Development (of the material kind) are / were primarily western concepts which were forced upon rest of the world.

    Today the entire world is collectively involved in destruction of environment but the biggest role in this process of destruction was played by Western Civilization.

    The West was the first to start Industrial Revolution and travel on the destructive path of Industrialization and Consumerism.......It then forced western lifestyle on its colonies in Asia, Africa and America whose cultures it had already destroyed during the era of Colonization.

    The West took the entire world on the wrong path of Industrialization, Consumerism, Growth Rate, Economy Rate and GDP that has led to destruction of most of the Biodiversity and Ecosystems.

    The West did not have the foresight to know that a lifestyle based on loot, plunder and exploitation of natural resources would destroy the very things that created and sustained all life on earth for millions of years and ultimately lead to total destruction of biodiversity and ecosystems.

    The West started Industrial Revolution and promoted Materialism because it focused on "Reason"......The East had focused on "Subjective Experience" for thousands of years which led to "Spiritual Development".

    The West spent its time and energy on "reason" which led to Science, Technology and Industrialization / Material Development....The West has got very little knowledge of Spiritual Development.....Very little concept of peaceful states of mind / peaceful subjective experience.

    The Aborigines of Australia would not have started the Industrial Revolution.

    Red Indians / Native Americans would not have started the Industrial Revolution.

    The Africans are very unlikely to have started the Industrial Revolution.

    These cultures were quite happy and content with their Rituals and Spiritual Practices.

    In India people had made efforts for Spiritual Development for thousands of years.....They developed methods and techniques for making the mind quiet, tranquil and peaceful......The knowledge of subjective experience led to the fields of yoga, meditation and pranayam [breath control].......Material Development has destroyed the planet, If any kind of development was needed it was Spiritual Development.

    Human work should fulfill the basic needs of food, clothing and shelter.....It should not turn into overwork or destructive work.....If extra time is available to people and society after basic needs have been fulfilled it should be used for Spiritual Practices, Art and Culture.

    .
    .

    If someone is being shot repeatedly do people ask what needs to be done to save him???

    If someone is being stabbed repeatedly do people ask what needs to be done to save him???

    Environment is being destroyed by Industrial Activity.......So it is very clear and obvious that Industrial Activity needs to be stopped immediately.

    It is insane to seek a solution after creating the problem......If you don't create the problem the solution happens automatically.


    Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment
     
  13. mouseinthehouse

    mouseinthehouse Junior Member

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    I honestly do not see the point in you continually posting this stuff. I just find in completely non-constructive and unhelpful.
     
  14. Unmutual

    Unmutual Junior Member

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    Accepting something is a personal choice. Somebody can't force you to buy an iPod. Western agriculture is the same way. Read One Straw Revolution. It wasn't necessarily forced on the Japanese farmers, but the promise of Western agriculture was the tipping point for many. We know that Western agricultures' promises are just flat out lies.

    I think you'll find that most people here don't particularly care for industrialization and a fair amount are of Western decent, including myself.

    I assure you, some people in the West knew this, others wanted profit and yet others were completely ignorant or didn't want to know. We can blame a lot of things for this, including western spirituality, namely Christianity with its "Be fruitful and multiply" bit. But it still boils down to personal choice and to have the strength to resist things that you know are bad.

    I like science personally, especially pure science(science for science's sake so to speak). I think what happened was that our knowledge far outstripped our wisdom(not necessarily in a spiritual sense). This was the issue, IMO, that gave rise to the bad points in industrialization(not that I can think of many good points).

    I don't think you can qualify those statements. Given the same set of conditions, they may very well have since they are humans. As we're all of African stock at some point in our history(at least that is the current line of thinking), then the Africans very well did start the industrial revolution and everything else on this planet that humans initiated.

    If spirituality held all the answers, then why has India adopted industrialization? Industrialization must have responded to some basic human need in the first place.


    Not creating a problem is easier said than done.
     
  15. sushil yadav

    sushil yadav Junior Member

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    The British colonized India and ruled over it for 200 years during which they destroyed Indian culture and forced Western Lifestyle and Industrial Activity on it just like they did in other parts of Asia, Africa and America.

    Once Industrialization gained momentum it created a large urban population which was not producing food but thousands of consumer goods and services....This urban population kept running and sustaining Industrial Activity.

    The politicians of India [and all other countries] have been bought over by Multinational Corporations, IMF, World Bank and WTO and are promoting their interests in India.....What we witnessing now is Economic Imperialism.
     
  16. Unmutual

    Unmutual Junior Member

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    What is preventing the entire country reverting to pre-industrialization and regaining their spiritual heritage? There must be some form of historical data about the spiritual practices(maybe some isolated pockets of traditional practitioners), so it can't be completely lost. I realize that it can be difficult to get out of the industrial state of mind, but it's not impossible. Permaculture's principle of small and slow solutions may help with this.
     
  17. Grahame

    Grahame Senior Member

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    Do you believe in Free Will Sushil?
     
  18. Ludi

    Ludi Junior Member

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    Some people are actually doing something about it:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBLZmwlPa8A


    '"It's possible to rehabilitate large-scale damaged ecosystems." Environmental film maker John D. Liu documents large-scale ecosystem restoration projects in China, Africa, South America and the Middle East, highlighting the enormous benefits to people and planet of undertaking these efforts globally.'
     
  19. sushil yadav

    sushil yadav Junior Member

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    .

    Some people are suffering from delusion.

    .................................................. ..........................
    Story of Pseudo Environmentalism in Industrial Society.
    .................................................. ..........................

    A Serial Killer with endless supply of ammunition goes on the rampage in the city.....The Police are informed.....They arrive on the scene.....They do not try to stop or capture the shooter.....They do not try to kill or incapacitate the shooter.....They allow him to continue shooting......They give him full liberty to move around all over the city.

    The Police focus on the victims of shooting.....They take them to Hospitals and try to save them with the help of best Technology / Health Care.....The Government sets up thousands of Organizations to do research on how the Whites can be saved, How the Blacks can be saved, How the Asians can be saved, How the Young can be saved, How the Elderly can be saved.....The Government gives Billions of Dollars of Grant to "Think Tanks" and NGO's to find out how the victims can be saved.....People of the city engage in Billions of pages of Discussion, Debate and Argument to find a solution to the problem.

    This is not the story of the Mass Shooter.....This is the story of Environmentalism in Industrial Society.

    Environment is being destroyed by Industrial Activity........Environmental Activists and Organizations are trying to save environment without stopping Industrial Activity

    One group is trying to save Forests......The second group is trying to save Rivers......The third group is trying to save Oceans......The fourth group is trying to make the Air clean......The fifth group is trying to save Tigers and Elephants......The sixth group is trying to save Whales and Dolphins.

    Height of Insanity and Abnormality.

    People who are trying to save environment in Industrial Society without stopping all Industrial Activity deserve the Nobel Prize for Lunacy.

    Why don't people realize the futility and absurdity of their efforts......It is impossible to save animals, trees, air, water and land without stopping all Industrial Activity.

    What is the point in saving a few Dogs, Cats, Whales, Tigers and Elephants when Industrial Society is killing billions of animals in Industrial Slaughter Houses and billions of Wild Animals in Forests by destroying Forests with Industrial Activities like Mining Industry, Logging Industry, Construction Industry, Energy Generation Industry, Manufacturing Industry, millions of kilometers of Rail and Road Networks and ever expanding Towns and Cities.......Industrial Society is also killing billions of fish in the oceans with Industrial Fishing and through discharge of billions of tonnes of Industrial Waste into oceans which has made them poisonous, acidic, warmer and created oxygen-deprived dead zones in the oceans.

    It is impossible to save Air, water and Land without stopping all Industrial Activity because Industrial Activity is killing them with trillions of tonnes of Metal waste, Plastic waste, Gaseous waste, Chemical waste, eWaste and Nuclear Waste.......Industrial Activity produces trillions of tonnes of Solid, Liquid and Gaseous Waste and there are only three places on earth where all this waste can go....Air, water and Soil.....There is no fourth place on earth where this waste can go...... It is impossible for Rivers, Oceans, Atmosphere and Soil to be clean in Industrial Society.

    This planet can only sustain a Hunter_Gatherer Society or an Agrarian Society......Not an Industrial Society.

    All Environmentalism is Pseudo-Environmentalism in Industrial Society.......It is impossible to save environment in an Industrial Society.

    People who pretend they are saving environment in Industrial Society are even more insane, abnormal and criminal than people who are destroying the environment.

    It is impossible to save environment in Industrial Society because Industrialization itself is the cause of environmental destruction.........In a non-industrial society environmentalism was not even needed.......In the absence of Industrial Activity environment got saved automatically because only limited destruction of environment was possible without Industrial Machines.

    .
    .

    Environment has been destroyed by Industrial Activity........Trying to save environment without stopping Industrial Activity is like ..

    Trying to save a victim of shooting by shooting him even more.

    Trying to save a victim of stabbing by stabbing him even more.

    Trying to save a victim of poisoning by giving him even more poison.

    Height of Insanity, Abnormality and Criminality.......You cannot save environment by destroying more of it.

    Industrial Society has been destroying Extra environment for 250 years........It has been destroying environment for "thousands of consumer goods and services" in addition to food, clothing and shelter.

    You cannot save a person after killing him.......You cannot save environment after it has been killed by Industrial Activity.

    The entire Industrial Society deserves the Nobel Prize for Lunacy for pretending that environment is getting saved when the reality is that Industrial Society has been destroying extra environment after industrialization and has destroyed so much extra environment in 250 years that there is hardly any environment left to save.

    .
    .

    What is the Result of 50 years of Environmentalism/ Pseudo Environmentalism in Industrial Society???

    Industrial Society has been killing millions of times more Animals, Trees, Air, Water and Land than Pre-Industrial Society every day for several decades.

    Industrial Society has been killing millions of acres of Forests with Industrial Activity every day for several decades.

    Industrial Society has been killing Billions of Animals in Industrial Slaughter Houses every day for several decades.

    Industrial Society has been killing millions of Wild Animals by destroying the Forests where they live with Industrial Activity every day for several decades.

    Industrial Society has been killing Air, Water and Soil with billions of tonnes of Solid, Liquid and Gaseous Industrial Waste every day for several decades.....Industrial Society has been killing Rivers, Oceans, Air/ Atmosphere and Soil/ Land with Billions of Tonnes of Metal Waste, Plastic waste, Gaseous waste, Chemical Waste, eWaste and Nuclear Waste every day for several decades.

    Industrial Society has been killing Millions of Acres of Fertile Soil with Cement, Concrete and Asphalt every day for several decades.

    All this Killing / Destruction was absent in Pre-Industrial Society without any Environmentalism.

    No environment is getting saved in Industrial Society.....Not an iota of environment is getting saved.

    .
    Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment
     
  20. Unmutual

    Unmutual Junior Member

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    Obviously you're not open to an actual discussion about this topic, but seem to prefer a monologue. Maybe you have recently realized what's actually going on in the world and you're angry. We've all been at that point, and that led us here. Either way, I think I'm done with this thread since you are now just regurgitating your previous posts.
     

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