In 1 sentence describe...

Discussion in 'General chat' started by Pakanohida, Jan 1, 2012.

  1. pebble

    pebble Junior Member

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    A promotion to what? I'm worried now.

    Maybe Geoff thought up all his good non-garden ideas in a garden.

    Kimbo, I understand the centrality of design in permaculture, and perhaps that is the criticism of gardening (I see this criticism commonly, here on the PRI forum, in the US, on the UK forum: that people are gardening and calling it pc but they haven't designed so much permaculturally speaking). My problem is that the people I know who are gardening and calling it permaculture* are still moving in the right direction. Many of them in very good ways. They're not calling themselves PC designers or consultants, so why does it matter?

    *they've read about permaculture and seen 'genuine' permaculture and are trying to emulate this in their own way. But they're not going to do a PDC no matter how much you or Craig or Bill or whoever complains. Unless pc reaches the masses on their own terms, it won't reach them. I don't understand the problem, or at least I think the problem isn't corruption of pc so much as corruption of the dream.

    I'm still waiting for some concrete examples so I can understand what you and Peter and everyone means.
     
  2. FREE Permaculture

    FREE Permaculture Junior Member

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    end of the day, what did you harvest?
    are you eating or are you too busy talking?
    you don't need to do a pdc to grow produce, my family's been growing food for 600 years, no power, no machinery, just common sense.
    permaculture didn't just arrive on the bill mollison boat, it's always been here.
    what part of permaculture hasn't already been a part of life for hundreds of years?

    still, it's about the end of the day, show us your produce, how many have you fed today?
    you can talk all you's like, bring in the end of the world thing, peak oil ect, run your pdc's which are based on books you've read and what others told you after they read the books, yeah show us your bare unproductive land with a log thrown on the ground, covered in dirt, call it hugelkulture, say it's the best thing since sliced bread, and yet I don't see any food!

    I bet I would compare with most here on the produce scale, i'm inner city on 450m2 half on concrete, lets weigh up.
    so no matter how great permaculture is, end of the day, common sense is all that's needed to feed ourselves.

    I think a lot of the people clinging on to permaculture are looking for something else, something a lot more, like spiritual, or the need to be almost an activist of some kind,
    these people would be activists in other things in life if permaculture wasn't to their liking, once the dust settles and the question is asked, what did you harvest today?
    not many actually show the goods, just a whole stack of notes and weeds.
     
  3. Grahame

    Grahame Senior Member

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    This is what happens when you label stuff.

    I went to look for a passage in the Tao Te Ching that would describe how I feel about this 'discussion', but so many seemed relevant...

    So I'll go with the first two chapters as translated by Stephen Mitchell.


    1

    The tao that can be told
    is not the eternal Tao
    The name that can be named
    is not the eternal Name.

    The unnamable is the eternally real.
    Naming is the origin
    of all particular things.


    Free from desire, you realize the mystery.
    Caught in desire, you see only the manifestations.

    Yet mystery and manifestations
    arise from the same source.
    This source is called darkness.

    Darkness within darkness.
    The gateway to all understanding.


    2

    When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad.

    Being and non-being create each other.
    Difficult and easy support each other.
    Long and short define each other.
    High and low depend on each other.
    Before and after follow each other.

    Therefore the Master
    acts without doing anything
    and teaches without saying anything.

    Things arise and she lets them come;
    things disappear and she lets them go.
    She has but doesn't possess,
    acts but doesn't expect.
    When her work is done, she forgets it.
    That is why it lasts forever.
     
  4. Grahame

    Grahame Senior Member

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    You can't kill the dream by invoking it's name indiscriminately. The dream remains the same whatever you call it.

    If you can no longer convey your dream with the name permaculture then call it something else. To blame the incapacity of permaculture to make inroads into mainstream society on the perceived misuse of its name is just lazy and thoughtless. If my daughters had different names I wouldn't love them any less. If the Axe-murderers down the road had the same names I wouldn't love my kids any less.

    The misuse of the name is an opportunity gained, not an opportunity lost forever. Reclaim the word if you must, but don't wallow.

    Hold the vision, accept baby steps and push for giant leaps!
     
  5. Grahame

    Grahame Senior Member

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    Permaculture is an opportunity to arrest the damage humans are doing to themselves and the planet and to forge a new and better future.
     
  6. Pakanohida

    Pakanohida Junior Member

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    Not a thing wrong since every farm needs to have a kitchen garden. Urban centers & Suburbs cannot have a permaculture farm like one in a rural area currently, but they can share resources with neighbors & have permaculture gardens to feed themselves and take burdens off of the current non working system of doing things.
     
  7. LonerMatt

    LonerMatt Junior Member

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    I didn't realise permaculture was solely about produce, which is all your post mentions :).

    If it were common sense, then by definition permaculture would be common - but since "common sense" has always been a misnomer, well, we know how that goes.
     
  8. mischief

    mischief Senior Member

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    gee,
    I'm starting to wonder if Im on the right forum.

    I thought the goal of permaculture was 'to get food grown where the people are'.
    While I have only just started on this and trying to take small steps at a time, we are eating our own food more and more as we go.
    Weeds??? yep, some plants are definitely in the wrong spot.

    Is it just me or are the main detractors here the very ones who are not growing their own food/ not sharing what they are doing and how they are getting on,....

    or are having to bail out??

    feeling abit snippity now.
     
  9. S.O.P

    S.O.P Moderator

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    I'm with you, mischief.

    At early stages, community need to be based around positive examples and if one's simple garden gets someone interested in bettering their lot, then that's on its way to permaculture.
     
  10. FREE Permaculture

    FREE Permaculture Junior Member

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    was it me again?
     
  11. dannyboy

    dannyboy Junior Member

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    Permaculture is system design. It is guided by 3 ethics (and further guided by 12 design principles). It is so much more than gardening.

    I reckon Marko had it right in his one liner:

     
  12. Pakanohida

    Pakanohida Junior Member

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    I agree with you & S.O.P. I guess I am goin back to my studies and work.
     

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