Hi everyone I've got a piece of land that at the moment is very dry, with poor soil, and a few young fruit trees. If it rains, or if I water it, it gets covered in pretty high mixed grasses and wild plants very quickly, up to shoulder height. This would probably be OK if I could slash it all down regularly and use it as mulch, but I have a little toddler and the two things don't mix. On the other hand, of course, if I don't water, the fruit trees don't do much and I'd like them to grow!! SO, I figured if I could sow a cover crop, water, use the cover crop as mulch for round the trees, I might get somewhere. Something perennial and deep-rooted like lucerne sounded good. How would you recommend I get started with this though? Should I sheet mulch bit by bit then sow the cover crop? I'm trying to avoid weed-killing and tilling (also not compatible with toddlers). Or is there another way? What time of year would be best? Rainfall here is about 850mm per year, but nothing much between now and mid-September, temperature ranges from -8 degrees to 40 degrees. Oranges grow fine here. Thanks if you can enlighten me on all this!
Re: How to sow alfalfa/lucerne or mixed cover crop? I'm shortly going to be in a similar position, only I'll have lots of lawn to replace with something more useful and requiring less maintenance. I too want to plant an orchard. And I've got three toddlers to keep out of harms way in the process! My initial thought was to use large sheets of black plastic laid out on the lawn to kill it off, then plant lucerne into the dead grass using it as a mulch layer. I could do it one manageable plot at a time, and maybe plant different crops (e.g. potatoes (with lots of additional mulch), oats, barley, clover, broad beans, peas, etc) into each plot so I can grow food for us and the chooks as well as mulch. Another idea was to build a chook tractor and let the chickens do all the hard work of clearing the grass for me. Again, one plot at a time, moving them on to the next plot as each one gets cleared. I'd be very interested to hear other peoples' ideas for controlling grass in an orchard, as well as for the process of transitioning from lawn to productive orchard with undercropping.
Re: How to sow alfalfa/lucerne or mixed cover crop? I've just started an experiment to grow 2 cereal crops per year usung the natural farming methods of Manasobu Fukuoka, basically no tillage or cultivation. This may be of interest to you as my trial on a 6m x 10m plot is going well, I've planted my crop tstraight into a severely mowed lawn which included, amongst other things ,couch grass which is a nightmare to get rid of. What I have done, and my climate is similar to yours although we only really go to +35 deg but down to - 12 deg here in Armidale NSW. Firstly, I scalped the lawn a number of times over 2-3 weeks with a lawn mower, as low as I could get it. I then scattered clover over the area, I used some white clover and also some Balansa which took off well, in fact it really did seem to outcompete the grass at that point. About mid April I broadcast Rye Corn (annual cereal rye not the rye grass) and covered it with a thin layer of straw to keeep the birds from spotting it too much. I watered it a bit in the early stages just to get germination going but its fairly tolerant to a meagre water supply. The rye is now dense and growning well up through the straw and is wonderfully lush. The is still some grass but this is being out competed by the rye which also has allelopathic properties which inhibit the growth of other grasses. Research shows it competes very well against grass, unlike wheat. Before harvesting that I will plant a summer crop, possibly wheat and then harvest the rye, throw the straw back on the plt as mulch and so the process continues. My point is that if you have a bit of time and don't want an instant fix you can outcompete your lawn using this type of process, and harvest grains to feed your chooks or yourself. Alfalfa can also be used as a cover crop in this process instead of clover but I think weakening the grass by severe mowing over a periof of time before sowing is a good plan, it's working for me, the grass is virtually non existant in my plot. Cheers Steve
Re: How to sow alfalfa/lucerne or mixed cover crop? Interesting discussion. I have about 130 SQM of grass on my verge that I simply don't want to maintain anymore. It does not grow well enough to produce enough clippings for compost and takes too much time in maintenance. There is plenty of subsoil moisture so I was thinking of just broadcasting lucerne seed over it to grow a green manure crop but perhaps there are alternatives. I want it to grow dense but not above knee high.
Re: How to sow alfalfa/lucerne or mixed cover crop? Great info Steve. I'd definitely recommend what Steve is doing. You could easily replace the lawn mowing with sheet mulching (black plastic, cardboard, carpet, etc), but you'd need a little bit of patients as the grass needs to decompose. Steve, would love to see pics, or a progress update as seasons change Cheers ! == Dylan
Re: How to sow alfalfa/lucerne or mixed cover crop? Steve, thank you for a very timely post! Our weather here in the NW U.S., is just barely starting to warm up... we've had nearly 5 whole days lately that haven't required a coat! The back of my property is about 2/3 acre that used to be a cow pasture in years gone by, heavy in several types of grasses, the most annoying being some kind of running grass and another that is a heavy clumper. All I've done is keep it mowed. I've wanted to plant a mixed cover crop, but have been debating the best way to do it withou having to plow or till it. I was wondering if mowing it, then sowing cover crop seeds among the grass residue would be enough to make it sprout and outwit the crows and other seed-stealing birds. So, you found the rye to be allelopathic enough to help control the grass? When I see the word "allelopathic", I tend to think it discourages seed growth, rather than existing plants. Your experiment gives me hope! My problem is that I can't scalp the grass like you did, which would help to kill it, because I have rocky and somewhat uneven soil. I do tend to grow some nice rocks... if they were potatoes, I would have some nice ones for baking! If you have any other hints or ideas or suspicions, please post them. I think I need all the help I can get. Sue
Re: How to sow alfalfa/lucerne or mixed cover crop? will post some pics soon btw https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allelopathy
Re: How to sow alfalfa/lucerne or mixed cover crop? https://www.colostate.edu/Depts/Entomolo ... pester.htm This paper gives a lot of info on the allelopathic properties of cereal rye
Re: How to sow alfalfa/lucerne or mixed cover crop? I cant claim personal experience but the idea of ''seed balls'' seems like fun and very useful. https://www.pathtofreedom.com/pathproject/gardening/seedballs.shtml cheers,
Re: How to sow alfalfa/lucerne or mixed cover crop? I'll give the seed balls a miss, Fukuoka only used them I think to prevent the rice seed rotting whilst left for a prolonged time on the ground prior to germination and also i think to reduve the theft of them by birds and rodents. My rye germinated pretty quickly, the thin straw layer kept post of the birds off (except a few pesky crested pigeons) and a ll is looking good so far. Time will tell but I certainly think its a good method to allow a family to grow most of their grains (or for the chooks) on a very small plot of land. Cheers
Re: How to sow alfalfa/lucerne or mixed cover crop? Wow! Thanks for all these ideas. When I posted the question I didn't say I had tried a mini-experiment broad casting alfalfa seed quite densely on a patch I hand-cleared round an apple tree. Nothing germinated, so I figured I had just done something completely wrong. Seems I was wrong about the rain too as it has been pouring all day, so I think I'll try again on wet soil. I'll also try brush-cutting very short and sowing in the mulch. I imagine I just got the timing wrong, should have tried very early Spring maybe?
Re: How to sow alfalfa/lucerne or mixed cover crop? steve, Why would you bother with a forum that has ceded you the term [Personal attacks not welcome]. This was not where we started. Genuine advice and experience was proffered. The reason, you would dismiss anything, is not 0ur problem. Go deal with it. cheers,
Re: How to sow alfalfa/lucerne or mixed cover crop? Steve, Being in Armidale is not an issue for anyone except for you. It is solid farming and a remarkable place to live.... cheers,,,
Re: How to sow alfalfa/lucerne or mixed cover crop? What happened there? I was enjoying reading both of you up till then. Back to lucerne and rye... Is rye any good under fruit trees, or does it compete as a shallow-rooter? I've got no experience with it at all.
Re: How to sow alfalfa/lucerne or mixed cover crop? I've no idea what he is on about, not dismissing anything, just trying to put forward some ideas on what I know and also in the areas that I don't know. BTW, I love Armidale, would't want to live anywhere else. Ho-Hum, if you are fell that you need to abuse me for something I'm completely unaware of then feel free, my self esteem is strong enough to take that. All I'm doing here is trying to give some 'useful' ideas on this posts subject. Cheers
Re: How to sow alfalfa/lucerne or mixed cover crop? Ho-Hum Was the post that upset you so the one where i 'dismissed; the use of seed balls?????????? FYI, I'm not dismissing them as a concept, just saying that I won't be needing them for what I'm doing. The use of abuse isn't really what I thought permaculture was about, sorry if I've somehow offended you
Re: How to sow alfalfa/lucerne or mixed cover crop? Back to the topic - I would assume that with rye being a grass it would still have a negative effect on young fruit trees, although older trees don't have a problem with grass once well established I think. I think that planting anything around trees other than grass is supposedly a good idea, clover, alfalfa or any luguminous ground cover would be good. I'm sick of mulching around the fruit trees and think a living mulch is a nicer idea. I likethe idea of growing vegetables and herbs etc under the trees but haven't got round to it yet, anthing that will outcompete or shade out the grass without outcompeting my fruit trees. Still haven't worked out how to post photos of my rye experiment yet. BTW, the seed ball link from Ho-hums earlier post was very good and inspiring, and I'm not just sayting that because he called me a w****r :? Steve
