You can't seriously think that chopping down as much forest as humans have has no effect on climate or environment? Do you seriously believe that dumping billions of tonnes of waste where ever we feel like has no effect? or that burning fossil fuels at such a rate does nothing to the balance of things? I mean get serious man, who gives a crap about what this scientist said or what that scientist said. I mean come on man, this planet is going to hell in a hand basket and to say that anything other than human activity is the most profoundly devastating thing driving that is just, well, I dunno, what that is. Surely we can all agree that if we keep going like this, then its gonna be a pretty bleak place to live in the not to distant future? So no matter what the consciousness of science or the consciousness of politics is doing, those of us who are aware of our own actions need to move forward in the permaculture consciousness. No matter what happens those paradigms will all fall away and be replaced by new ones, because if there is one thing that is clear it is that things change, the world changes, and those who change with it will survive, those who stick their heads in the sand will be left behind and preserved as fossils. I am all for healthy debate, and a good measure of healthy scepticism, but do we really need a debate about whether climate change is real, human-induced, or cow-fart driven here in the permaculture forum?