How can the Murray Darling System be saved for ever?

Discussion in 'The big picture' started by Michaelangelica, Sep 11, 2008.

  1. Michaelangelica

    Michaelangelica Junior Member

    Joined:
    May 2, 2006
    Messages:
    4,771
    Likes Received:
    10
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Re: How can the Murray Darling System be saved for ever?

    A good ABC site on water,
    https://www.abc.net.au/water/default.htm
    Latest issues
    Your rivers, your life

    An ABC Rural initiative examining how water will define our lives this century, as we manage the driest continent on earth.

    more
    We're water savers

    Australians are world class water savers. Since the turn of the century, we have reduced our average water consumption by 20-30 percent. In Brisbane, residential water use has fallen by more than 40 percent in the past six years
     
  2. Michaelangelica

    Michaelangelica Junior Member

    Joined:
    May 2, 2006
    Messages:
    4,771
    Likes Received:
    10
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Seawater Greenhouse (Australia) Pty Ltd

    https://www.seawatergreenhouse.com/australia.html

    Pumping Power calculator – what power is needed to pump seawater to the middle of the Gobi Desert for desalination in the SeaWater Greenhouse? – answer – not a lot
    https://www.claverton-energy.com/pi...the-seawater-greenhouse-answer-not-a-lot.html

    https://www.claverton-energy.com/ho...e-amounts-of-renewable-energy-for-europe.html

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    https://www.ileonardo.com/notebook/632556_/Water#p65

    [​IMG]
    Large scale Solar Desalination using Multi Effect Humidification

    https://www.ileonardo.com/notebook/632556_/Water#p65
     
  3. Michaelangelica

    Michaelangelica Junior Member

    Joined:
    May 2, 2006
    Messages:
    4,771
    Likes Received:
    10
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Opinion: Sheer bloody insanity? New water targets infuriate Aussie growers
    By Paul Wallis.
    1 of 2 ►
    Canberra - A gaping hole in credibility, based on environmental water allocation to Australia’s major rivers, has called for a 45 percent increase in environmental flow. The proposal will mean massive cuts in farming water allocations.


    Read more: https://www.digitaljournal.com/article/298661#tab=comments&sc=0&local=#ixzz11myg0kxy
    . . .
    This proposal involves taking 3 times as much water as the current system. There’s one major problem with the idea. That’s a tidy 200% of absolutely bloody nothing during a drought, at the expense of food production, and at the expense of decimating our balance of trade. There is such a thing as an agricultural sector, remember, wombats? Not everything is about mining. It’s one of Australia’s primary export markets, for those who haven’t read a paper in the last 200 years.
    I’m also a Green. This proposal puts the worst possible interpretation on environmental concepts. It’s beyond criminal negligence. This is insanity, a mindless recitation of a figure which means nothing but trouble for the Australian public as well as the growers. Decreased production means increased prices, and there are no economic options.

    Read more: https://www.digitaljournal.com/article/298661#tab=comments&sc=0&local=#ixzz11mybfVqT
     
  4. ecodharmamark

    ecodharmamark Junior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2005
    Messages:
    2,922
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Murray Darling Basin

    These are the current stated positions of three main stakeholders:

    Government (Murray Darling Basin Authority)

    Irrigation Lobby (NSW Irrigators Council)

    Science (The Wentworth Group)
     
  5. springtide

    springtide Junior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2008
    Messages:
    359
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I wouldn't worry too much about prices, with our dollar up so high we are not about to be exporting that much so produce is going to have to get sold locally. Still not good for farmers but good for the permaculture movement and let's face it basic food should not be as cheap as it is, it's subsidised with cheap power, cheap water and cheap land thats getting destroyed in the process (cheap to buy and irrigate 100 years ago anyhow).
    Dozens of these threads talk about the fact that broad acre farming can't go on forever for various reasons - peak oil, salinity, etc, etc, and.......... wait for it.... lack of water!
    I hate to say you all told me so - but you did and it seems true.
     
  6. adrians

    adrians Junior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2010
    Messages:
    143
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    plenty of salty water inland already..
     
  7. eco4560

    eco4560 New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2009
    Messages:
    5,925
    Likes Received:
    9
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I've been watching the media coverage and looking at some of the farm footage and wondering whether they really are using water wisely or not. I don't know enough about farming or the region to have an opinion, but there did seem to be bare earth under and between the citrus trees. And I'm wondering about how sustainable wetland rice culture practices are in a country prone to drought.
    Maybe it'll be a chance for permies to pick up some ex farm land on the cheap when the previous owners leave because they had their water use cut?
     
  8. springtide

    springtide Junior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2008
    Messages:
    359
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Apparently when european experts come over to look at our irrigation systems they are speechless at the unlined channels and overall waste.
     
  9. ecodharmamark

    ecodharmamark Junior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2005
    Messages:
    2,922
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Some interesting stats:

    People

    At the time of the ABS 2006 Census of Population and Housing there were 2,004,560 people living in the MDB - 10% of Australia's population.
    Most of the MDB population lived in New South Wales (39%) and Victoria (29%).
    Agriculture is a significant employer in the MDB. In 2006, 10% of all people employed in the MDB worked in Agriculture, compared to 3% Australia-wide.
    The other common industries of employment in the MDB were Retail (14% of all people employed), Health and community services (11%), Government administration and defence (10%), and Manufacturing (9%).
    The mean equivalised household income of people in the MDB in 2006 was $675 per week compared to $732 per week for Australia as a whole.
    Almost two-fifths (38%) of Australia's farmers resided in the MDB.
    The number of people employed as farmers in the MDB decreased by 10% between 1996 and 2006. Over the same period the number of people employed in all other occupations increased by 18%.
    Nearly two-fifths (39%) of people employed and aged 65 years or over in the MDB were farmers.


    Water Use

    In 2004-05, industries (including Agriculture) and households in the MDB used more than half (52%) of Australia's total water consumption.
    In 2004-05, 83% of water consumed in the MDB was consumed by the Agriculture industry.
    Other users of water in the MDB included the Water supply industry, which consumed 13% (predominantly through irrigation water supply losses), and Households (2%).
    In 2004-05, 3% of Australia's electricity and 33% of the nation's hydro-electricity was generated in the MDB.
    In 2005-06, 7,720 GL of water was consumed for agricultural production in the MDB, 66% of Australia's agricultural water consumption.
    In 2005-06, the majority of water consumed in the MDB originated from two main sources: surface water (6,499 GL or 84% of MDB agricultural water consumption) and groundwater (1,069 GL or 14%).
    In 2005-06, the majority of surface water consumed by Agriculture in the MDB was in New South Wales (57%) and Victoria (30%). Over 70% of the 1,069 GL of groundwater consumed in the MDB was in New South Wales.
    In 2005-06, the agricultural commodities that used the most water in the MDB were:
    cotton - 1,574 GL or 20% of water used for agricultural production in the MDB;
    dairy farming - 1,287 GL or 17%;
    pasture for other livestock - 1,284 GL or 17%; and
    rice - 1,252 GL or 16%.
    Between 2000-01 and 2005-06, water consumption by some agricultural commodities was more variable than others. For example:
    cotton water consumption - ranged from 1,186 to 2,599 GL; and
    rice - ranged from 615 to 2,418 GL.


    Agriculture

    There were 61,033 farms in the MDB in 2005-06, accounting for 39% of all farms in Australia.
    A significant proportion of Australia's food production was grown in the MDB in 2005-06:
    100% of rice;
    95% of oranges;
    62% of pigs;
    54% of apples; and
    48% of wheat.
    In 2005-06, the MDB contained 65% of Australia's irrigated land.
    The 1.65 million hectares (ha) of irrigated crops and pasture in the MDB were distributed as follows:
    pasture (43%);
    cereals other than rice (20%);
    cotton (15%);
    rice (6%);
    grapes (6%);
    fruit and nuts (5%); and
    vegetables (2%).
    In 2005-06, the Gross Value of Agricultural Production (GVAP) in the MDB was worth $15 billion, or 39% of the total Australian value of agricultural commodities.
    Between 2000-01 and 2005-06, the GVAP in the MDB increased by 7.3%, from $13,972 million to $14,991 million. Over the same period, the GVAP of all Australian Agriculture increased by 12.8%.
    Between 2000-01 and 2005-06, the total Gross Value of Irrigated Agricultural Production (GVIAP) in the MDB remained at approximately $4,600 million. GVIAP as a proportion of GVAP in the MDB decreased from 33% in 2000-01 to 31% in 2005-06.
    In 2005-06, irrigated agriculture in the MDB generated 44% of Australia's GVIAP. Of this:
    dairy farming generated $938 million, or 20% of the total MDB GVIAP;
    fruit and nuts generated $898 million, or 20%;
    cotton generated $797 million or 17%; and
    grapes generated $722 million or 16%.
    In 2005-06, some irrigated crops in the MDB accounted for relatively high levels of GVIAP using relatively low levels of water consumption. Examples included:
    fruit and nuts (20% of total GVIAP; 5% of agricultural water consumption); and
    vegetables (12% of total GVIAP; 2% of agricultural water consumption).
    Other irrigated crops in the MDB accounted for relatively low levels of GVIAP using relatively high levels of water consumption. Examples included:
    rice (6% of total GVIAP; 16% of agricultural water consumption); and
    cereals other than rice (2% of total GVIAP; 10% of agricultural water consumption).


    Source: ABS (2008 ) Water and the Murray Darling Basin - A Statistical Profile: 2000-01 to 2005-06
     
  10. Michaelangelica

    Michaelangelica Junior Member

    Joined:
    May 2, 2006
    Messages:
    4,771
    Likes Received:
    10
    Trophy Points:
    0
    If we threw a few billion at a scheme for getting water into the river system, what would be the pay off do you think?
    Could we do with 3Bil less broadband/ NBN?
     
  11. Fernando Pessoa

    Fernando Pessoa Junior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2009
    Messages:
    316
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    The river is gone,the farms are gone.The whole eco system is currently in systemic decay and collapse.
    I am just glad it's turning into a debacle anything less and I would have had to hang up the old cynics hat.At least we are lucky enough to be able to afford the charade,other countries, the ones that can't manipulate distribution and water systems just fold up, contract in population through famine and disease and wait for the next rains.It's not pretty but it's honest .
    Our system is dishonest we are all pigs at the resource trough,to the farmers in the MDB I feel no empathy and to the die hard conservationists I have none either.To use an old saying "you reap what you sow".As far as the environment is concerned,the Earth will always heal itself,the sooner we create our own demise,the sooner she can get on with the earth repair work.

    Best Wishes Fernando Pessimist
     
  12. DonHansford

    DonHansford Junior Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2009
    Messages:
    207
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    If you gave the 3Bil to Peter Andrews, you would end up with (at least the beginnings of) a much more sustainable system.
     
  13. Michaelangelica

    Michaelangelica Junior Member

    Joined:
    May 2, 2006
    Messages:
    4,771
    Likes Received:
    10
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Yes, agreed
    any other suggestions on what you would do with 3Billion to get more water into the system?
     
  14. Michaelangelica

    Michaelangelica Junior Member

    Joined:
    May 2, 2006
    Messages:
    4,771
    Likes Received:
    10
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Not just Ozzies problem
    [video=youtube;YeJhVtJKJU8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YeJhVtJKJU8&feature=uploademail[/video]
    With streams and rivers drying up because of over-usage, Rob Harmon has implemented an ingenious market mechanism to bring back the water. Farmers and beer companies find their fates intertwined in the intriguing century-old tale of Prickly Pear Creek.
     
  15. Michaelangelica

    Michaelangelica Junior Member

    Joined:
    May 2, 2006
    Messages:
    4,771
    Likes Received:
    10
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Leaked Murray Basin Plan Science Spells Death Sentence for River
    Barmah-Millewa
    20 May 2011
    MEDIA RELEASE

    News that the Murray-Darling Basin Authority is developing a Basin Plan that would only restore 2,800 GL of water to the Basin’s ailing rivers undermines claims by the Prime Minister last night that the Authority is on track to deliver an environmentally sound Plan.

    Prime Minister Gillard last night gave an “ironclad guarantee that the MDBA is going about its work properly,” however The Australian revealed today that the MDBA is developing a Basin Plan that will restore only 2,800GL of environmental flows, a position labelled by independent scientists as “unsupportable.”

    “According to the MDBA’s own figures, 2,800 GL would lock in the death of at least a quarter of our red gum forests, and leave the Murray Mouth closed three times more frequently than natural,” said Friends of the Earth spokesperson Jonathan La Nauze.

    “The Prime Minister’s guarantee looks shaky when the agency in charge of the Basin Plan is on track to condemn the nation’s longest river to permanent degradation.”

    “Waterbird populations have declined by 80% across the Basin in recent years due to the drying out of lakes and wetlands. The MDBA’s own science shows that 2800GL is . . .
    https://www.melbourne.foe.org.au/?q=bmc/media/20may11
     
  16. Peter

    Peter Junior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2013
    Messages:
    158
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I agree with your statement "Stop The Irrigators". It is totally wrong and irrisposible to do and/or allow this practice. Tome they are evil people wasting water like Kevin Rudd wastes our money.
     
  17. gardenlen

    gardenlen Group for banned users

    Joined:
    May 14, 2004
    Messages:
    3,464
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    one that gets left out peter, is grow the habitat large trees back on the high ground to drop the salt water table, then shut down the broad-acre/factory farms, who get more water allocation as they are gov' subsidised. and all they deliver is bad weather and expensive produce.

    evil begets evil

    we have no real moral ethics for australia, greed wins.

    len
     
  18. ecodharmamark

    ecodharmamark Junior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2005
    Messages:
    2,922
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I beg to differ, some of us remain hard at work to develop and maintain a secular ethical response to the challenge of greed, including that which occurs in the MDB. The 'blueprints' of one such group can be accessed here:

    The Wentworth Group of Concerned Scientists

    and include:

    The Urgent Provision of Water

    Accounting for Nature

    Australia’s Climate is Changing Australia

    A New Model for Landscape Conservation in NSW

    Blueprint for a National Water Plan

    Blueprint for a Living Continent

    Optimising Carbon in the Australian Landscape

    Sustainable Diversions in the Murray-Darling Basin

    Changes to Commonwealth powers to protect Australia's environment
     
  19. gardenlen

    gardenlen Group for banned users

    Joined:
    May 14, 2004
    Messages:
    3,464
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    of course mark,

    but where is this secular ethical response, what good does quoting concerned scientists do? the rot continues, and whee are these ethics recorded that one and all adhere to?

    looks like more waffle to me.

    len
     
  20. ecodharmamark

    ecodharmamark Junior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2005
    Messages:
    2,922
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    0
    If you read the papers provided in the link, Len, you would find answers to all of the above questions.
     

Share This Page

-->