HELP! US - AntiPermaculture Law

Discussion in 'The big picture' started by Pakanohida, Apr 11, 2013.

  1. eco4560

    eco4560 New Member

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    Yes - Gina would approve. I wonder if we can convince her to move to North Korea? She'd distract Kim for a bit...
     
  2. Pakanohida

    Pakanohida Junior Member

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    The senator wrote me again, and once again, nothing about SB 633.
     
  3. Unmutual

    Unmutual Junior Member

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    Laughing is better than crying, so LOL(I hope you're laughing with me). However, I congratulate you on your gumption because I wouldn't have even bothered. I've sent letters in the past. The ones that get replies are just about the same as yours...non-committal or out of left field in topic. Most have gone unanswered. Basically, I have no use for politicians, you can't even compost the BS they spout(though form letters work...I'd rather have the tree though).
     
  4. Pakanohida

    Pakanohida Junior Member

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    Monsanto = Money Organized Neo Strategic Agricultural Terrorism Organization.

    What can I do but fight for my life? If seeds become state controlled, it all goes illegal and underground like marijuana, and that "war on drugs" is a world wide joke.

    I mean if we really had a war on drugs, then why don't US soldiers set fire to the poppy fields in Afghanistan?

    I digress.

    My point is I feel I have to do this because no one understands the implications yet of this broad sweeping law and how it effects the rest of the country, let alone world.

    Monsanto = Money Organized Neo Strategic Agricultural Nefarious Terrorism Organization.
     
  5. gardenlen

    gardenlen Group for banned users

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    g'day paka,

    not 'IF' the state has full control the 'state' being the world gov' it is when they activate their powers already passed into legislation.

    about 15 years ago when i was into garden chat with US gardeners, there was then a white paper, all designed to wrest the growing of any commercial value crops in home gardens (one driving force being that home gardeners (long way fro farmers) created and passed on damaging pests. like here home banana plants are accused of spreading disease to banana farms 2k kilometers away, when the issue was caused by greedy farmers, same with kanka in central qld, citrus farmers chasing tighter controls as they see it they have to pay to have their fruit tested and home gardeners don't.

    the white paper was under a harmless term controlling weeds (well to them weeds are what we grow and eat), the bottom line is by legislating what we can grow then everything outside that is a weed. very simple we can grow native plants of no commercial value. so the reg' has been around for a long time. works well in communities where neighbours take obvious pride and spirit in peering through the curtains and dobbing on others.

    have fun in this new world it can only get worse

    satan is in control of the world at present, sadly that is one of the results of secularisation and non believe in good ethics, we are divided. we will fall.

    len
     
  6. ecodharmamark

    ecodharmamark Junior Member

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    Oh dear... :(
     
  7. Unmutual

    Unmutual Junior Member

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    Satan being in charge is god's will. It's all part of his grand design, or don't you have Revelations in your bible? Satan being in charge should make you giddy with joy, because that means the end times must be near and the Earth can be reborn in goodness and god's love.

    That may sound smarmy, but it is in the bible. I know, I'm not supposed to know anything about the christian religion even though I studied it for 7+ years.

    Sorry Pak.

    On a side note, and in an attempt to re-rail the thread, have you thought about running for office? You don't actually have to expect to win, just use it as a platform to get your message out to more people. The fees shouldn't be a lot, but if you can get even one newspaper to interview you, you're doing better. And if, for some reason, you find out that you are one of those charismatic leader types, you can always bow out if you don't want the job(and let's face it, who would want to have to sit next to all those politicians in a big room?).
     
  8. Pakanohida

    Pakanohida Junior Member

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    I got the Coquille Valley Seed Savers on board with the problem, and the information is spreading by word of mouth in my area, and to be honest, I am thinking about the 1 of 3 Water District Supervisor positions.

    As for the Senate.. I would prolly fillabuster with my fists.
     
  9. Unmutual

    Unmutual Junior Member

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    That's good that you have a seed organization interested, well done!

    Some of those people in congress need a good fist shoved in their face, hard. Oh man, water guy? That's probably going to get interesting very soon, especially with your proximity to California. Texas is heating up about water rights too: https://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/22/us/22water.html?_r=0, https://legalplanet.wordpress.com/2...e-tarrant-regional-water-district-v-herrmann/
     
  10. Pakanohida

    Pakanohida Junior Member

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    Texas is trying to steal water from Native American Reservations & from Oklahoma. Kind of like what Nevada does to CA. ;)

    Northern CA will forever be screwed by Central and Southern CA till it becomes part of the State of Jefferson. =(

    Personally, I am happy the Klamath Dam is coming down the river is going back to the way it was. :)
     
  11. Farside

    Farside Junior Member

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  12. Unmutual

    Unmutual Junior Member

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    My head started to spin while I was reading the meat of the law, but from what I was reading it's about selling seed(reproductive material, not including root cuttings for some reason). It has no affect on the home gardener outside of what is available to buy. Home gardeners can freely trade seeds, grow seeds, save seeds and even do some breeding themselves just as long as they don't sell the seed. Apparently, if you want to start a seed saving organization, then that's another loophole you can use.

    I really dislike articles that are more about emotions than actual facts. Of course if someone can find something in the law that outlaws home gardens, home plant breeding, or even a hint at a monsanto take over of the EU seed business, then show me. It just seems to be more knee jerk reactionary 'media news' to me. It used to be real easy to hate Monsanto...now I have to question everything.
     
  13. Farside

    Farside Junior Member

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    Well if that's the case then it seems like this law is targeting the likes of Monsanto, not the little guy.

    I would have thought that the heritage / open pollinated seed stock of the world (pre industrial revolution) would have fallen under the classification of a cultural asset.
     
  14. gardenlen

    gardenlen Group for banned users

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    doubt it would harm monsanto and their rogues gallery, it will be targeting gardeners, especially where we grow commercial type plants. saw a lady i think in england who grows heirloom's to sell to the worlds gardeners, she is concerned, about what is meant between the lines of text, there is already laws in the US and canada where your garden must fit the neighborhood image, that is back and front yard, it will come to australia, in canada a permy gardener was under threat to make her garden comply or local gov' was going to change it and charge her, it all part of the weed control laws, they bought white paper in in the US around 15 years ago, simple thing you are allowed to grow native plants anything else is a weed, and in US the dobbing neighbour syndrome is their best early warning.

    they ahve tightened up on banana growing over here although there is no supporting evidence that home gardeners in brissy could ever affect banana farms as far away as they are. citrus farmers are making a stink about why their fruit must be sampled for disease but home gardeners are exempt, any disease we have had on fruit farms is caused by greedy farmers, look at the abandoned mango farms about breeding fruit fly.

    i feel they are aiming at stopping us growing our own food.

    len
     
  15. ecodharmamark

    ecodharmamark Junior Member

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    There is always great value in reading the actual document before commenting upon the same.

    For example, Article 2 Exclusions states (p. 25, my emphasis in bold):

    This Regulation shall not apply to plant reproductive material:

    (a) intended solely for testing or scientific purposes;
    (b) intended solely for breeding purposes;
    (c) intended solely for, and maintained by, gene banks, organisations and networks of conservation of genetic resources, or persons belonging to those organisations or networks;
    (d) exchanged in kind between persons other than professional operators.


    Furthermore, Article 3 Definitions states (p. 25-26, my emphasis in bold):

    For the purposes of this Regulation, the following definitions shall apply:

    (6) 'professional operator' means any natural or legal person carrying out, as a profession, at least one of the following activities with regard to plant reproductive material:

    (a) producing;
    (b) breeding;
    (c) maintaining;
    (d) providing services;
    (e) preserving, including storing; and
    (f) making available on the market.


    Lastly, and if there should remain any doubt that European-based permies have anything to fear concerning this EU proposal, the Explanatory Memorandum Sec. 3.2 Part II Profesional operators states, in parts (p. 5, my emphasis in bold):

    ... under this Regulation the definition of operator does not include private persons, the term 'professional operator' is used. Professional operators are defined by a single definition ... Basic obligations will be introduced for professional operators concerning the identification of the plant reproductive material they are producing or making available on the market, keeping of records, facilitation of controls and maintenance of the material. The traceability of any plant reproductive material is ensured by the obligation for the professional operators to have information one step before and one step after their commercial activities.

    More than enough loopholes to ensure the average permie can continue along on their merry way, I should think.
     
  16. Pakanohida

    Pakanohida Junior Member

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    Theoretical:

    So my farm can't sell seeds to others, but I can trade them freely.
     
  17. gardenlen

    gardenlen Group for banned users

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    good paka,

    that means i can sell as i don't have a farm, i have a garden.

    len
     
  18. ecodharmamark

    ecodharmamark Junior Member

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    Being mindful that this is an EU proposal with the potential to only affect people living in EU-member states. People living in the USA and Australia are not governed by EU laws. So this law - should it come to pass - should not affect those same people. As an aside, most laws - ergo legal cases - are often 'loopholed' by their strict definitions. This EU example is a good case in point. If people living in EU-member countries should wish to 'bypass' this law, then one only has to define one's self as 'non-professional', and/or a 'private person' in order to do so.
     
  19. gardenlen

    gardenlen Group for banned users

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    we don't quiet come under the euro umbrella, but this is also administered by the world gov.

    tried buying seeds from an irish gardener in the early 2000's and was told no way jose as i was not an eu member. even pommie gardener contacts would not buy them and send them to me, i pay of course. usually some ambiguity in these laws and the right to widen without notice.

    len
     
  20. annette

    annette Junior Member

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    True but you find countries copy each other when it comes to legislation. I worry that this affects my fellow human beings where ever they may live on this earth. Once you get a foot in the door with enacting laws regarding seeds etc, it is only a quick hop step and jump to changing it without scrutiny of government via regulations etc that bypass parliament and can be put straight through. It is a cunning plan on behalf of governments to use regulations as they do not get the same scrutiny. Also a slight change in definitions can change the whole thing. These changes can be small and incorporated into large bills for other things that no one takes any notice of.

    For example I remember years ago having to make some legislative changes to the Fisheries Act and found that the definition of fish includes shell grit. Yes shell grit is a fish according to the law.

    Those who think it's ok it doesn't affect me are forgetting the divide and conquer principle. They start small and then gradually incorporate everyone. There's no one left to complain because no one stood up for each other.
     

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