help me design a 100 acre

Discussion in 'Designing, building, making and powering your life' started by jamal, Mar 4, 2017.

  1. jamal

    jamal New Member

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    hi

    can you help design a 100 acre farm

    the land is 500 x 800 m

    400,000 sq m

    the slope is south to north (500 m side)

    the climate is arid in central arabia with average rainfall of 150 mm (5.9 in)

    temps are shown below

    any help is deeply appreciated
    many thanks[​IMG]
     
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  2. songbird

    songbird Senior Member

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    Occupation:
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    near St. Charles, MI, USoA
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    Climate:
    -15C-35C, 10cm rain/mo, clay, full sun, K-G Dfa=x=Dfb
    it is very tough to go from such a general request without any
    other information... however, if you search for Geoff Lawton's
    Greening the Desert videos and the videos for the Sequel
    site you can get a good idea of the overall approach needed for
    an arid climate:

    https://www.google.com/maps/place/31°52'19.1"N+35°37'53.4"E/@31.8720385,35.6311368,148m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x0:0x0!8m2!3d31.8719722!4d35.6315?hl=en

    coming along pretty well IMO...

    have you access to a library where you can get materials for free
    to study/use?

    though, i think now you can get plenty on-line too. :) i'm pretty sure
    there are plenty of videos on arid-climate sites. youtube will help.
     
  3. jamal

    jamal New Member

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    thanks for your input

    the land i have is much bigger than the one you showed me

    I can copy all of that and still have more than 96 acre to work with

    and i don't know what to grow

    I was thinking

    dates, guava, oranges, limes, tangerine pistachios, berries, avocado, figs, pomegranate.
     
  4. kreidebrei

    kreidebrei New Member

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    I have the impression that you are very much in the data driven way of thinking. I would first try to sort of brainstorm. What do you WANT? What is your dream?
    It helps very much to hand draw the plant of the property (I tell that over and over again) rather than to start drafting on a computer - it simply starts automatically a different kind of thinking. Of course later in the design you will need all your figures etc.
    First of all I would print out a scaled plan of your property. It can be done on any cheap printer and it goes like that: https://mountainherbs.net/blogs/news/how-to-print-a-scaled-base-plan-of-your-property
    As well the human ressources, will you have employees or do you work with your family in this case what do they want? Maybe you could generate two or three different income streams and a garden for yourself.
     
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  5. songbird

    songbird Senior Member

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    Occupation:
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    working within the limitations of an arid climate is a
    challenge. i don't think you really understand that
    well at all.

    i pointed you to useful resources and you complain
    they are small. i suggest you actually study them and
    talk to people who are doing this sort of thing before
    being so quick to dismiss them.
     
  6. kreidebrei

    kreidebrei New Member

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    If you have such a big acreage you probably would sell the produce. Of course you have to think what grows in your climateat all. But as well what do people buy? Or were do you want to sell? Do you want to stand at the market? Deliver greengrocers, restaurants? I would first have a more broader vision. Or you want a plant nursery. Or you want to create a forest and show people how to achieve that in such an extreme climate. Or you want to grow medicinal herbs, the options are endless - but which options are you drawn to? I would figure this out very thouroughly before even taking a shovel in the hand - I certainly would not want to work in that heat!
     
  7. jamal

    jamal New Member

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    i'm sorry i didn't mean it like that

    but some of the techniques i've seen with permaculture design work fine for small lands.

    but they seem impossible to "harvest" if implemented on large acreages
    that's why i came here for help.
     
  8. jamal

    jamal New Member

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    yest i wanna sell at the central fruit and veggies market (190 km / 120 m away)

    people buy dates, oranges, bananas, apples, grapes, lime, tomatoes, eggplants, cucumber, onions, carrots, garlic, watermelon, zucchini. onions.

    definitely sell alot, over 2 mil lbs of food. / year.

    no, i don't wanna stand in the market. I have a dream of delivering fresh veggies to consumer doors once every 3 days. but it's kinda a futuristic plan.
    i think nowdays, you can install, a solar powered mini fridge at costumers homes, and deliver veggies when they're at work.

    I wanna create forests, but not now, i actually have made a list of 60 wild plants that grow in arabia, and foraged by domesticated and wild animals. so one day, i'll be work on afforestation project.


    nursery sounds good

    I wanna do alot, and don't know where to start.
     
  9. Terra

    Terra Moderator

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    How much water do you have
    I have twice the rainfall you do and I need to water lots
    96acres is a big garden

    You have big plans so do the obvious obtain a PDC "permaculture design certificate" then do an advanced course in dryland
    Spend the money on yourself that way you cant lose any , then you can progress at your own speed as funds are available

    Are you living there I will assume so

    Short version
    Start around your house and work out read about permaculture zones

    You will need some animals in the design (no natural system on the planet without them )

    Plenty of big jobs been done designers like Darren Doherty have done cattle stations in Australia (properties big as a small country)

    So main place to start after doing a design would be earth works to trap and hold all available rainfall and put it to use .
     
  10. jamal

    jamal New Member

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    thanks for your advice
    i look into it, but mean while i got 40 hectares doing nothing for me.

    i can make money growing alfalfa, wheat ... etc

    but i rather plant trees they consume less water and add more values to the property
    what types of "edible" trees can grow there
     
  11. songbird

    songbird Senior Member

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    hmm, i guess i'm not seeing that. what issues are you seeing that
    block harvests?

    my biggest concerns have little to do with that kind of issue, but
    more to do with basic logistics/safety/planning for such an arid and
    remote place. you aren't competing against every other farmer
    that has a closer location but you are also competing against every
    farmer who may import via planes, rails or cargo ships.

    i don't think you'll get enough return if you approach this project as
    an extractive one with a large investment up front. i think that is
    bound for failure and abandonment (the example from Geoff's
    Wadi Rum Organic farm patch is fitting). but if you look at it you'll
    notice some plantings are still there and growing which points to a
    longer term approach.
     
  12. BajaJohn

    BajaJohn Member

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    Do you have additional irrigation water available?
    Do you plan to build any water storage on your land?
    You look to have very significant circadian temperature changes. Significant water storage could provide a heat sink to even this out in at least part of your property.
    Do you plan on any livestock? - goats maybe.
    Cactus crops? - nopal/prickly pear, pitaya/dragon fruit.
    Mango would probably do very well. Lichee maybe. Tamarind. Some citrus like heat, others need some cold. Grapefruit do really well an a hot climate.
    Do you know how many cold chilling hours you get annually? Some apples require 1000 hrs
    Do you know what crops are already grown locally? Do you have or can you access good local horticultural knowledge. For example when date palm flower and bear fruit in your region. What is the humidity at the time you want the fruits to dry. Are there strong winds likely to blow sand onto sticky dates. How labor-intensive is date farming? When do avocados fruit? Will it be at a time when you have water available? Will it be so hot they get sunburned?
    If you can afford to invest (gamble) on planting a 40-hectare farm in one shot, you would be wise to invest a little in some local regional knowledge and advice before you start. It may be available at nearby universities or other research establishments or just look into what successful local growers are doing and learn from them. Otherwise you may be wise to heed songbird and start off slowly to test what works and what doesn't work in your region. Without a little more knowledge than you are displaying here that 40 hectares could swallow up all of your resources with little or no return.
     

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