Has Permaculture gone commercial?

Discussion in 'General chat' started by Earthchild, Nov 9, 2011.

  1. eco4560

    eco4560 New Member

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    Find someone who is teaching permaculture and volunteer to be their helper - on the understanding that they teach you to teach, and mentor you as you set up your own teaching program.
     
  2. springtide

    springtide Junior Member

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    I would also recommend "permaculture one" 1978 mollison and holmgren - if you can get it or later editions, the book has the "foundations" of permaculture and it sort of reads like a personal discovery - the house i grew up in had a lot of stuff from the book put into it. I would also look up "herronswood" in Victoria Aust. it's a heritage listed house with a formal, edible garden - replacing traditional plants with edible ones (usually heirloom stuff), i think it's a good way to show people how to bring food production into the front yard and help enable the "future permie" to convince their spouse/kids/neighbours/etc that they are not about to take up smoking pot and stop washing their hair - but can create something sustainable, beautiful and tasty!
     
  3. pebble

    pebble Junior Member

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    I've suggested this before, and my apologies if it comes across as patronising, I think you need to get some training in communication and listening skills. You have alot of ideas and passion, and I think you need to find ways of bridging that to other people.
     
  4. springtide

    springtide Junior Member

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  5. Grahame

    Grahame Senior Member

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    Here's a random thought...

    Lets say that we have one side called permaculture and another side called the-rest-of-the-world. Now based on the principle of 'edge' in permaculture you could say that the edge; the place where permaculture butts up against the-rest-of-the-world; is going to be the place of highest diversity. My hallucination is that this is where some of the really great ideas are going to come from.

    I like to think of permaculture as a little bit of remnant forest, and the-rest-of-the-world is the denuded landscape of industrial harvesting. And at that edge is where we get a lot of weeds, but those weeds are paving the way for the forest to move back in and advance its edge. Sometimes it works best with pioneer species (aka weeds).

    Whaddayareck'n?
     
  6. annette

    annette Junior Member

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    Absolutely love that Grahame.
     
  7. Dzionik

    Dzionik Junior Member

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    Me too Grahame... everything is resource.:)

    translation please ?
     
  8. eco4560

    eco4560 New Member

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    It's Australian for what do you reckon - also means what do you think.

    Not to be confused with avagoodweekend or chuckusabeerluv.
     
  9. pebble

    pebble Junior Member

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    That's really good Grahame. I can't remember what the thread was about now :-D
     
  10. Pakanohida

    Pakanohida Junior Member

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    Translation: What do you reckon?
     
  11. insipidtoast

    insipidtoast Junior Member

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    ahahaha. No, I understand you're not trying to patronize. Nonetheless, I find it ironic that you feel empowered to make such a suggestion based upon my behavior on an internet forum....as if internet forums are an accurate barometer for one's communications skills.

    I mean we are talking about the same communicative medium that has given rise to an entire lexicon based on: "trolls", "flaming" etc.

    Please don't be so quick to point fingers and make assumptions. To me, that's the sort of behavior that indicates one might need some training in communication and listening skills. One effective technique that can be applied is eliciting information instead of assuming. I.e. Asking questions to help clarify details before making assumptions about details relating to one's real world behavior and past experiences.

    I need to put an end to your assumptions by informing you that I have had extensive participation in non-violent communications courses and related courses such as "The Heart of Now" https://www.heartofnow.org/ So yes, I have had "some training in communication and listening skills."

    Another hindrance I see to effective interpersonal communication (especially on internet forums) is that of letting one's ego get in the way of accepting the other individual's views, arguments, beliefs, etc. It seems knee jerk reactions manifest and, once they are in (virtual) ink they must be carried out to the end so that one does not seem to be ungrounded or unrooted in their stance.

    And lastly, taking your suggestion into account, one can never have too much training in communication and listening skills, so you're suggestion might be highly beneficial if I decide to follow through with it. Thanks!:handshake:
     
  12. pebble

    pebble Junior Member

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    I'm glad to hear you've done nonviolence communication work :) I do think that communication skills are very important in teaching, especially if one is going to also have clients.

    My suggestion wasn't based on assumptions, it was based on observation of how you communicate on this forum. I've done alot of work with communication skills in lots of settings both on and offline. I take your point about me assuming about training, but it does then beg the question of why you communicate the way that you do here. If it's intentional (rather than from lack of skills) then I'd be curious as to know why.

    As for checking things out with you, the impression I had from other threads was that you weren't particularly interested in engaging with people at that level. Again, based on observation, so my apologies if that's not correct.

    I'm not so worried about egos. The world is big enough to handle that. I do agree that people can react to disagreement, but I'm not sure that even that is a problem if there is a commitment to good communication. And in a permaculture context I would say that's part of the second ethic - care for people. Respect goes a long way. Those are just my thoughts, not 'aimed' at you :)

    I also think that the internet is full of people exhibiting wonderful communication. The existence of trolls and the like doesn't negate that. My point being that those of us who think that communication is important can and do choose to behave in certain ways. My online behaviour is a bit different than in RL, but not that different and I bring all the communication skills I have. If there is one thing that the internet is, it's communication. Trolls have nothing to do with that.

    Your endeavours to find a way of making a living and practicing permaculture are to be applauded. I hope that the forum can help you with that.
     
  13. Pakanohida

    Pakanohida Junior Member

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    It truly is, but when you are on a forum where what I write gets changed instantly, or later because someone felt threatened by facts, or a quote, then we have a problem. Hence my issues with other forums.
     
  14. springtide

    springtide Junior Member

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    I did read something in the paper the other day about the internet causing people to loose their empathy towards others as we are all communicating on a screen and not face to face - this is even more apparent in younger generations... and i agree - i try to imagine myself telling my neighbour my posts and how they would react before i hit the "reply" button.
     
  15. Pakanohida

    Pakanohida Junior Member

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    As someone who was a professional in the video game industry, and still plays from time to time...

    O M G YOU HAVE NO IDEA.

    I have watched my favorite genre of video game, ((MMO)) de-evolve from a genre where people from all over the world get together to fight against a common cause. It used to be games where 3000+ people from all over the world would play against 3000+ other people.

    Now, for the most part it has been numbed down to 10 or 25 man groups that fight against everyone, not just the enemy in the game.

    In a very messed up way, I used to be proud at making games that brought happiness to others, and now, I look at my rewards from the industry, and I feel like Jacob Marley in Scrooge, and it is nothing but links in a chain I will carry with me till the end of my days.
     
  16. S.O.P

    S.O.P Moderator

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    I've often thought about the win-at-all-costs mentality of online gaming, often at the detriment of everyone else's enjoyment. I theorised that because of the lack of face-to-face, such as old-fashioned team sports (or increased competitiveness now across the board), they fail to see the damage they cause, and also lack repercussions in the form of being ostracised. Smaller, well-moderated games tend to avoid this.

    There is also a derogatory term for people who play fair and try not to use the game mechanics in a way that is not intended - a scrub.
     
  17. springtide

    springtide Junior Member

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    I'm going to try and keep my kids off online gaming until they are paying for the net in their own house - we used to play lan games against each other at work when the boss was out but we all just wanted to relieve frustration with each other, then have a few drinks and go home. This all in killing the faceless world is just not good for anything.
    I try on these posts keep the information technical and not personal (I am a scorpio so this is often difficult). Although i'm already falling into the i i i i mememe i i i i trap which always gives me visions of someone standing on top of a soap box when reading threads, "i" think emoticons and netspeak (eg: lol) are often used as sarcasm or to cover up general nastiness (eg: .....well you can go and Fkcu yourselves (lol)....) Maybe in permaculture we (better than "i") are looking for purity - in something... or anything that you can't get elsewhere in the world (eg: Halo vs Halo 2 for Pak and S.O.P.) , maybe I missed the point of this thread.
     
  18. pippimac

    pippimac Junior Member

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    springtide, it looks like we have pretty much opposite ideas about how we communicate best online:)
    I've found avoiding anything but versions of 'I' makes for generally positive internet interaction. It feels a bit fake to start with and yes, a bit "mememe", but I like that better than some of the alternatives.
    I'm not very technically-minded, so my contributions generally involve me and what I think/feel about stuff. It would be dishonest of me to represent my posts as anything other than my opinions and personal experience.
    I refused to use emoticons for ages, but started after I realised they (hopefully) avoid people assuning I'm being sarcastic or nasty.
     

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