hard line views

Discussion in 'Planting, growing, nurturing Plants' started by barely run, Oct 20, 2005.

  1. barely run

    barely run Junior Member

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    I have enjoyed this forum over the last few monthes, easy going informative and indivually helpful.
    Please dont let hard line views on religon and politics hijack this forum. Many of us hold strong religious/spiritual beliefs and don't try to use this forum to push these views on others so please do not denigrate those who hold mostly moderate religious/spiritual views. Politics is also a devisive weapon in an open forum....we don't all hold the same views but all strongly uphold the right of free speech....leave the religon and politics to other forums and promote the positive co-operative values that underpin permaculture.
    Namaste
    Cathy
     
  2. earthbound

    earthbound Junior Member

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    Thanks for being the level head Cathy..

    Your right, lets talk poo and seeds and furry animals, it's spring and theres sooo much to do, so much to learn and observe...... :D
     
  3. Tamandco

    Tamandco Junior Member

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    Thanks Cathy,

    That whole discussion today has left me a little depressed.

    Tam
     
  4. ~Tullymoor~

    ~Tullymoor~ Junior Member

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    Um, what discussion??? :? I think Tully is way out of the loop.... :(
     
  5. baldcat

    baldcat Junior Member

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    me to I think I have missed it.... Not that it maters to much for me... I'm way to passive... And I don't push my views or beliefs onto any one, sometimes I find it hard to tell myself what I think...

    If I smoked pot, I think I would be a great stoner :weedman:
     
  6. murray

    murray Junior Member

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    i too, have missed the thread being talked about here... but do let me know if i need to lay down the law to anyone. i won't put up with that kind of crap here.
     
  7. Richard on Maui

    Richard on Maui Junior Member

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    Uh, how can you seriously address anything without talking about politics? Permaculture is about the most politically charged concept I can think of. From the politics of oil to the politics of food and the air we breathe, Permaculture engages in a political world. Deal with it.
     
  8. Tezza

    Tezza Junior Member

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    :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)

    Yahaaaa Go ricky go ricky go ricky go ricky go ricky go ricky


    Tezza
     
  9. christopher

    christopher Junior Member

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    I think Cathy's point is not to NOT talk about politics, but more to avoid the pitfalls of getting hung up on small issues of politics, and to try to focus on issues we have in common.

    Also, Cathy mentioned spirituality, which is a potentially contentious issue, too, with person X loving deity Y, and person A following the teachings of Guru F, etc.

    Sprituality is something we are all to some extent capable of, and many people interpret God different ways, and some do not believe that a god exists, and some are followers of soil science guru Dr Soandso, and some else prefers DR Thatotherone, etc..., and some believe in political system A, or economic system H, and others decry the folowers of that system as being revisionist running dogs, lackeys of the imeperialist Johnny and GW, etc, etc, etc...

    Slight CDD there, but respecting others is especially important in spirituality becuase that is intangible but deeply internal

    Life is a series of compromises, at least mine has been. If I held a POV that was contentious or divisive to others here, I would not bring it up, unless I thought it was really important.

    Poo and seeds and furry animals are all easy things to talk about. And politics of food and air, and oil, etc are all important and shouldn't be neglected either as they are critical issues. However, respecting differences of opinion etc are what makes this forum so nice.

    I used to be involved in a few other forums, populated by people of a substantialy lower standard than what I see here (bunch of trolls over there, if youse axt me..), if the discussions, humour, giving, warmth, intelligence, commitment, general soul searching and (it seems to me noteworthy) ability to find fault in ourselves, etc are indicators.

    Those other forums were full of the meanest and most miserably opinionated mudderfuquers I have ever banged heads against (of course they were all wrong :lol: ), with snide, insulting and cutting remarks over really minor issues. With the exception of one or two very small and really rather unsubstantial flair ups, I have not seen that at all here. Everyone here is really nice!

    I think alot of what most of us are trying to do, is find the best way to move forward in our lives, with the least damage to the world around us, the most benefit to that same world, and are working on reducing, minimizing and reversing our environmental foot print. That is admirable! So I think that you have an an excellent point, Cathy, and so do you, Richard, and they are not mutually exclusive.

    Luckily I have no extreme POVs that are likely to upset anyone here. I am in complete and total agreement with everyone ( :lol: )....

    I gots to run, volunteers screeching lunch is on.

    Peace out, yo!

    C :color: :love7: :hippy2:
     
  10. Richard on Maui

    Richard on Maui Junior Member

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    As ever, very well put Christopher.
    I think that the saddest possible thing about a disagreement is if those disagreeing have a problem with disagreeing. There isn't necessarily a damn thing wrong with being in disagreement. To me, the premise behind any good discussion is that all participants are welcome to present their views openly and honestly and fully. Obviously if a forum becomes plagued with personal attacks, noone is going to have much fun. But please, lets feel free to voice our opinions without fear of stepping on one anothers toes!
     
  11. christopher

    christopher Junior Member

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    Richard,

    I agree with what you said. A variety of opinions is important for development. I find nothing to disagree with about agreeing to disagree. That would be agreeable. Its when people disagree in a disagreeable manner (I think we can all agree) that is disagreeable, don't you agree?

    Agreeably yours!

    C

    PS, FYI, the passiflora seed you sent me, their sprouts are getting transplanted. Thanks for them!
     
  12. frosty

    frosty Junior Member

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    so I am guity of having some views that some may say are hard line views

    I am inclined to let my views be known but I dont think I have made any personal attacks on anyone ....... I certainly appologise if I have because it was not intended .........

    I need to try and make people more aware of my situation because it is the only way people like me can hope to survive

    I am "allergic to the twenty first century " I have multiple chemical sensitivity

    everyone and anyone can quite legally murder me by wearing perfume or the neighbours spraying pestices or herbicides

    yeh I know it sounds melodramatic but unfortunately it is true

    trying to find a safe place to live is a nightmare and virtually impossible ........

    I cant live too close to any neighbours in case they spray or even paint or many other things people do in their backyard using chemicals so any town or city is out

    I cant live anywhere near broadacre farming or horticulture because of the spray drift ...... in the case of aerial spraying drift can travel 100s of km .......... they also aerial spray tree farms and most of the SW of WA has blue gum plantations

    I cant live near any industry

    that lead us to finish up here ....... near the coast for clean air ........ and when we came here there was no veggie farming because the soil is poor and rocky ( typical of our luck the veggie farms are now moving in despite that )

    the one enormous mistake we made was not realising that the pollution from military training is even worse than industry ........ its a well hidden fact ........ did you know the worlds largest polluter is the US military ?

    as tezza said to me in private correspondance when I first joined the board we are not living in a good place considering my problems

    but we cant find anywhere else to go .........

    and who would buy a place here anyway now with an enormous increase in training and the US using it as well

    but why should some aussie citizens have to live like this ? why should a govt organisation be destryong lives and the environment supposedly to protect us from some outward threat .......

    the outward threat is hypothetic but the threats to us here are real ........

    I dont appologise for having "hard line" views ......... I wish I had the luxury of not having to bother with such things ......... but I dont
    :roll:

    frosty
     
  13. christopher

    christopher Junior Member

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    Frosty,

    I wouldn't hold ANY of those views to be contentious or "hard line". Your views are all very valid, and I, personally, think your sharing your experiences is of the utmost importance. You have personally been exposed to the extremely negative side effects of the application of chemicals for dangerous and destructive agricultural practices that others may be able to avoid if your views are better disseminated.

    Your views are not hardline, they are stated fact. Period. For whatever it may be worth, you have my full support to say whatever you need to say, anytime. I have not heard a single word from you that anyone here is likely to disagree with, and certainly none I have a problem witth.

    C
     
  14. Franceyne

    Franceyne Junior Member

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    Frosty, I'd just like to agree with every thing Christopher has just said. I read your comment with tears welling, I think it is good and important that we hear your story - to have an insight into and understanding of the consequences of our actions for people that have been so affected by others un-questioned practices with toxic materials.

    I wish you had the luxury of not having to bother with such things.

    Take care,
    Fran.
     
  15. earthbound

    earthbound Junior Member

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    Frosty,

    Most people still don't realise that Lancelin is bad, and realistically it would be better for a person who a) doesn't really care, and/or b) doesn't have the hyper sensitivity, to be living up that way if it's bad..

    If you wanted to try and sell up to go somewhere a little safer, you wouldn't even need to hide the reasons your moving, and the facts about Lancelin. Most people know that testing goes on up there, and most people now a days have heard about multiple chemical sensitivity, but don't necessarily understand the finer details...

    But then I guess the selling isn't the hardest bit...... where tooo....... :? :? :? :? :?

    Joel

    p.s. I don't think you have hard line view really..
     
  16. Tezza

    Tezza Junior Member

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    Hi ya all

    where have people on here ben discussing religion in here I musta missed that thread.........

    Also the political stuffwhen has that been argued about,
    I think the person heretic or whatever is maybe a blow in poo stirer,what ever his purpose.... it certainly caused a reaction :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: 8)

    Thats all folks I hoe this forum continues or ever...A bad idea,arguments hostilitys,may happen occasionally but we are human :( :( :( :( :( .

    I think we should explain that its not nice to attack in the open if i offend wich i sincerly hope i dont that the person attacking does it via pv messages.there is absolutly no reason to publickly attack anyone in here....

    I was publickly attaked twice in here,First time was sorted out amicabally by our selfs via the pv messages.I know get along verry well with the other person. and it was sorted out without the need of exchanging insults
    The second and most recent attack on myself was taken with a stronger peice of advice on this persons journilistic style,I sent the offender a well chosen pm to state what i thought on this attack, they havent replied as of yet....

    Tezza
     
  17. frosty

    frosty Junior Member

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    Christopher Fran and Joel thanks for your support and kind words

    I promise I will try and not be such a grouchie old bag :lol:

    the army has gone for now but the dog is of his food :cry: presuming he has a sore throat and hoping it will be ok in a few days

    Joel I suppose there are some people who wouldnt mind the military ...... until very recently we were about the only place in WA that hadnt experienced the property boom and we couldnt get enough for our 8.5 acres and house etc to buy even a block elsewhere ........but over the weekend we heard that property here has finally caught up

    but as always the problem is where to go ....... we always keep an eye on the Quokka real estate :lol:

    frosty
     
  18. ~Tullymoor~

    ~Tullymoor~ Junior Member

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    I have one word for you Frosty (and Mr Frosty) ....TASMANIA. :D
     
  19. Tamandco

    Tamandco Junior Member

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    VIEWS, VIEWS, VIEWS, VIEWS, VIEWS.

    From where I'm sitting, I can't see that 'VIEWS' are what many people are expressing here, it's 'FACTS'.

    It's like the smoking debate. Smoking is obviously very bad for you. It's a scientific fact. And yet there are billions of people out there who are addicted to cigarettes. They didn't mean to become addicted, but they did. They know it's bad for them, and many of them knew it was bad when they started smoking, but they still did, because it gave them some sort of pleasure or satisfaction that outweighed the negative consequences. Many of them would like to give up, but due to a chemical dependence, they're unable to. Many people don't wish to give up because they believe 'IT WOULD NEVER HAPPEN TO ME'. (I am not a smoker, but sympathise with many who are and want to kick the habit)

    Now, anyone who has kicked the habit might say, JUST DO IT, forgetting just how difficult it was when they did IT.

    Some of you are saying to all of us, THESE THINGS ARE HARMFUL TO YOU. But then it comes to a decision. Do we want to take heed and change our lifestyles, or not. Our choice whether to do so or not is of course, our own to make. Many of us believe, IT WOULD NEVER HAPPEN TO ME. In many cases, this is true. In some cases, it's not. Many of us also feel the benefits of NOT CHANGING, to us, outweigh the risks. It's a choice.

    There are no views. Just facts and choices. View are 'WE DON'T BELIEVE IN ......'. Choices are 'I DON'T WANT TO ......'

    I ABSOLUTELY and COMPLETELY sympathise with Frosty re your condition Frosty. I feel ANGRY at those responsible and ANGRY at the government for not prohibiting the use of such harmful chemicals. I don't doubt that the chemicals your have had to eliminate from your life are harmful to you, and appreciate your wish to warn others of their potential danger. BUT, many of the arguments put forward on this forum recently have been over chemicals, methods, etc, of which their impact on the majority and the environment, are considered safe.

    Some might question this claim, but many of us have enjoyed many years of use of some of these questionable items/chemicals, suffering no ill effects, just as many smokers live to ripe old ages. And just because I don't smoke cigarettes doesn't mean I that's my view. I have no view, it's merely a wish. And of course I wish my mum hadn't smoked for all those years and as a result, developed heart disease and emphasema... just a wish.

    We wouldn't be here, chatting on this forum, if we didn't all hold dear similar environmentally based beliefs. I've never touched marijuana and would never have anything to do with it, but haven't condemned any forum members (or friends) who have openly discussed their use of it. Fine, go for it, just count me out. Simple! I respect their desire to inflict their bodies and mental health with what they wish, with the knowledge that they themselves are aware of the facts and consequenses and have therefore made an informed decision, as they wish.

    To argue its safety is to open up a whole new can of worms, as I too can argue the safety of worming and vaccinating my family and animals, using tupperware, microwave ovens, mobile phones, plastic computer keyboards, treated pine, hair spray, makeup, hair dyes, etc, etc, etc.

    Tam
     
  20. Tezza

    Tezza Junior Member

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    Hi frostys how r you both/all?

    Good to hear your place is woth more.......Excuse me now frosty for a minute ok..

    Does anyone find it strange that prices are going up in the rural areas west oz certainly.No one wants laND FOR 50 YRS, THEN BOOM UP THEY GO
    funny how in my nearst larger town, prices increased 50 grand less then a year,just coincedently after a new major real estate company decides to put up shop in town.Does someone know something more then others ,Is the prices artificially inflated like PerthWhy/how does an old house rise in value by so much over so short a time.....

    Close ya ears tighter frostys .....How the heck can a bombing range be worth more now then few trs ago. has scrap metle gone up?????
    I must get some shares. In shrapnell maybe....

    Oh well a propery boom sounds quiter then sonic booms huh?

    ok now frostys... bye :( :lol: :shock: :D :?: :!: :wink: :wink:

    Tezza
     

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