growing apple trees from seed

Discussion in 'Planting, growing, nurturing Plants' started by pebble, Jun 13, 2009.

  1. pebble

    pebble Junior Member

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    Anyone done this? I know the pros and cons re seed vs grafting, but am interested in propagation from seed technique. I'm using feral apples as seed source.

    cheers,
    pebble.
     
  2. paradisi

    paradisi Junior Member

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    Re: growing apple trees from seed

    I used to give seedlings to a friend of mine - for an apple hedge - - they just grew in the compost heap

    I don't think there's anything special you have to do - just collect good fruit and plant the seeds
     
  3. Michaelangelica

    Michaelangelica Junior Member

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    Re: growing apple trees from seed

    Just this year. the Granny Smiths seem to have sprouting seeds in them. I got one up to 1" before the possum ate it :!: :evil: :?
    I'm trying again without a lot of luck so far.
    After all, the Granny Smith was a seedling once itself. Grown by (Mrs) Granny Smith near Epping, Sydney NSW.

    Maybe they have stopped spaying the fruit with growth retardants 8)
     
  4. pebble

    pebble Junior Member

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    Re: growing apple trees from seed

    Hmm, I think there's a bit more to it paradisi. Cold stratification for a start. I found an old thread that talked about putting seed in a jar with soil and leaving in the fridge for 3 months. Might try that.


    Apples with sprouting seeds in them M, lucky you!
     
  5. paradisi

    paradisi Junior Member

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    Re: growing apple trees from seed

    sorry pebbles

    when i was growing the seedlings I lived in canberra - - lots of cold stratification there - the compost heap would be left to sit over winter - can't turn a heap properly because of a broken back - so it goes without turning - - and the seedlings just came up from old apple cores
     
  6. pebble

    pebble Junior Member

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    Re: growing apple trees from seed

    Plenty of cold stratification here too if I had a compost! I only have a worm farm at the moment. Plus I have specific feral apples I want to propogate so need to keep track of what seed is turning into what tree.
     
  7. pebble

    pebble Junior Member

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    Re: growing apple trees from seed

    Interesting thinking about it though, when I had a compost I never got apples growing in it. Avocado, pumpkins yes, and the plums self seeded everywhere, but not apples.
     
  8. pippimac

    pippimac Junior Member

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    Re: growing apple trees from seed

    Hi pebble
    Grafting/pippin issues aside, apples do need a period of stratification- although leaving them outside in Otago should do the trick! I think if you plan to refridgerate them, best to dry thoroughly first and seal carefully or they might just rot before spring.
    You must have plenty of land to do apple experiments on; I'm in suburban Wellington and everything has to be squashed in, with no room for trial and error!
     
  9. pebble

    pebble Junior Member

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    Re: growing apple trees from seed

    Hi pippimac,

    So is an apple from a tree grown from seed a pippin? How excellent.

    Yes, I have a big amount of land to plant in, being a feral gardener (most of the bottom half of the south island ;-) ) Do you not have any wild land in Wellington? A town belt or overgrown reserve?

    I'm in central at the moment. Maybe I'll do some outside and some in the fridge. I'm not sure about drying the seeds - do you meant dry them completely (say for a week at room temp)? Will they still sprout after that?


    Here's the old post that talks about the jar in the fridge thing. They're saying to use the seeds fresh:

     
  10. pippimac

    pippimac Junior Member

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    Re: growing apple trees from seed

    Yip. Pippin. And the name's just a coincidence; I don't know much about the ins and outs of growing apples from seed.
    But that's never stopped me before, so...
    the info about drying and saving for spring is probably directed more to the heavy-snow-for-three-months crowd; I reckon you could easily do the fridge/soil thing. Less mucking about.
    And I do know people who've grown amazing trees/fruit from seed. Most people don't like surprises, but with half the South Island, there's plenty of room to experiment!
    I need to seriously examine guerilla gardening as an option; I can't squeeze much more into 'my' space. Might be time to use some of 'ours'...
    I envy you your stonefruit. Plant a cherry for me. And an apricot.
     
  11. paul wheaton

    paul wheaton Junior Member

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    Re: growing apple trees from seed

    In the last few months I've collected seeds from over 100 varieties of apples with the idea of doing exactly this. My understanding is that an apple tree grown from seed has a tap root. Once transplanted, it does not.

    I've focused on varieties that are big fruit and/or winter keeper fruit. My plans are for primarily pig feed.
     
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  12. pebble

    pebble Junior Member

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    Re: growing apple trees from seed

    Sounds a good plan.

    What do you mean about the taproot? Would a self seeded apple have a taproot then?
     
  13. paul wheaton

    paul wheaton Junior Member

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    Re: growing apple trees from seed

    That is my understanding.
     
  14. pebble

    pebble Junior Member

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    Re: growing apple trees from seed

    sorry, still don't follow. If I plant a seed, grow a seedling and then transplant it, it won't have a taproot, but if I throw a seed in the garden and let it grow there it will?

    What's the implication of that? (I don't know much about tree root structure).
     
  15. paul wheaton

    paul wheaton Junior Member

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    Re: growing apple trees from seed

    Yes. That is my understanding.

    If you plant the seed in your garden, a tree will grow there with a taproot. But if you dig that tree up and plant it somewhere else, it freaks out and the taproot dies.

    A tap root can generally go deeper for water and nutrients. Robert Kourik (author of roots demystified) does counter this a bit with some comments about how taproots are overrated. I wish I understood his comments better.
     
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  16. digger

    digger Junior Member

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    Sorry it's an old thread that I am adding too, but have just cracked a couple of granny smith apples open grab the seeds and have also got sprouting seeds!

    Eight out of ten seeds are sprouting. My theory is that the apples have had there 'cold break' while being stored in a coolroom somewhere and now out of the coolroom and into the Australian summer are ready to grow. Yay for me cause thought I was going to struggle trying to get the seeds to grow this late in the year.

    Happy days,
    Pete
     
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  17. Pakanohida

    Pakanohida Junior Member

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    Only when improperly dug up, which is how 99.99999999999999999999% of the world population does it. Check out Sepp Holerz's method. He even keeps a large amount of the hyphae in tack.
     
  18. NGcomm

    NGcomm Junior Member

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    Hope I'm not telling any of you how to suck eggs but here is my two cents worth. I have around 30 standard and heritage apple trees, half of which I have grafted and grown out myself.

    As you probably know, grafts on a rootstock will have the size and resistances associated with that rootstock. Seedling apples (grown from seed) will never grow and produce the same apple type it was grown from. Consequently every granny smith for example has been grafted from the original tree and its descendants.

    The rootstock I use is M111 as it takes longer to produce fruit than an M106 but once it does it can provide 2 or 3 times the crop. It is larger than M106 (around 75% of seedling size). The majority of bud wood I use on this is old school cider apples like Kingston Black.

    I do have 6 apple trees grown from seed but they were planted with absolutely no expectation that they would produce anything like their parents apples, they were just damned nice looking trees.

    Citrus on the other hand will grow as per their parents seeds so consequently I have around 60 lemons, tangelos and oranges of different types grown from the seeds of fruit I have enjoyed, both commercial and from local trees.

    With regards the taproot - the key with tree and fruit trees in particular is firstly make sure when you are growing them in tubes make sure the tap root never touches the bottom as once it does it can set the final size back by up to 50% and secondly, as already noted, take a big a load of soil as possible when transplanting, both width and depth to make sure all tap and feed roots are gathered without damage plus a good amount of the associated biota.

    To get the seed ready for sowing, gather, soak in water for 48 hours, wash off and chill in the fridge for a couple of days then lay on a wet paper towel in a plastic container with the lid on for another couple of days. Put all seeds into a glass of water and throw the floaters away then plant in good seed raising mix, you should get 70%-80% success rate from this approach.

    Hope it helped :)
     
  19. digger

    digger Junior Member

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    Hi NGcomm, sorry should have mentioned that the granny smiths will be used as grafting stock.

    I am also growing cider/heritage trees and planned to graft some Kingston Black onto the granny smiths. What are your thoughts on the resulting trees? I know there are considerable variables involved but what would you expect in terms of tree size, yield, quality etc.

    Cheers,
    Pete
     
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  20. NGcomm

    NGcomm Junior Member

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    Pete - for the price of around $4.50 a piece I would definitely go with a quality rootstock instead of trying to save a couple of dollars by using a seedling, even my granny smith is grafted even though it is primarily used as a pollinator for the mish-mash of other apples I have. Check out Maple Grove https://www.maplegrovenursery.com.au/rootstock.htm descriptions which give a good breakdown of cropping yields, sizes, soil types, pruning and drought tolerance and the best quality and price around. For a good list of pollinators check out - https://www.orangepippintrees.com/pollinationchecker.aspx?a=0&v=1540. I use red delicious for the Kingston blacks plus some pippins to be on the safe side.

    Stay in touch as I have three rare Foxwelp apple trees (the best cider apple trees with a great tannin level) in their first year of growth. They will be ready for some bud-wood to be taken next year and apparently mixing them with Kingston black makes for a cider to die for. Happy to swap some wood and spread these very rare trees around. Might as well be drinking the best cider available when the zombie apocalypse happens!!
     

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