GM vs petrochemical

Discussion in 'The big picture' started by 4G's, Sep 16, 2014.

  1. 4G's

    4G's Junior Member

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    Hi all,
    We are seeking your thoughts and opinions on what is a better chainsaw bar/chain lubricant.
    Conola based oil (which is a gm) or petrochemical lubricant.

    Which one is worse or better to use on a property with hopes to get organic certification one day? And to use the wood shavings (full of oil) for the compost loo which will eventually go to the food forest as fertilizer?

    Thoughts....
     
  2. 4G's

    4G's Junior Member

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    Does anyone have any thoughts which would be better to use?
     
  3. Unmutual

    Unmutual Junior Member

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    From what I understand, any vegetable oil makes a good lubricant. I'm not sure how some would smell under that high friction scenario(I'm thinking olive oil would stink), but you have other options that aren't GMO(sunflower, peanut, olive to name a few). All you can do is try different ones, I guess. Just pay attention to what's going on and stop cutting if you see smoke! I "think" peanut oil has a pretty high smoke point, so maybe try searching the burning points of each oil.
     
  4. Benjy136

    Benjy136 Junior Member

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    Having used chain saws on a daily basis, I have another issue when it comes to using any vegan oil for your chain saw. It, in my qualified opinion, would be fine to use a high flash point vegan oil short term. The friction reducing quality of the "vegan oils" is far less than the regular "chain oil" and will cause excessive wear on both the bar and the chain. If you feel driven to use it, be sure to check the bar edge at least daily. When the groove the chain rides in begins to mushroom, it will cause the bar to "hang" in the kerf, giving the impression of a dull blade, and will have to be filed "true" often. There is also the possibility of burnt oil buildup causing "drag". I am only surmising on this last point, not having used cooking or salad oil in any of my saws. About the smell.....Get real...You're outdoors....I hope.

    When used propperly, about four ounces of oil is used to make about 50 cuts in a one foot diam. log. The sharper the chain and the less pressure (just don't force the saw through the log) the less oil will be used. I don't know, but I would think a non-detergent oil might be less intrusive to the environment. Keep the tension of the chain as reccomended. Never use the chain saw with the least bit of "droop" in the chain. When cold, it should snap back when pulled. It will loosen very slightly when heated in use. Therefore, I don't advise tightening too tight when hot.(right after use)

    Just one more tip (you experienced folks can ignore this). If the saw is not to be used in the near future, empty the gas into a container and run the saw until it starves to death. This can save an expensive repair bill...........................Happy cutting,

    Benjy136
     
  5. 4G's

    4G's Junior Member

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    Thanks! Didn't even think of using veggie oil.
    So if using a veggie oil, what has been tried and successes/failures? Thoughts on additional wear and tear?
    Saw is used for a good two /three days a month.
    Cheers
     
  6. Benjy136

    Benjy136 Junior Member

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    I have a Cedar that has given up the ghost. I'll drain the oil out, rinse with kerosene ( the kerosene being thinner) and apply some used and strained vegie oil and go to work tomorrow if the Lord is willing. I have spare chains and have "dressed" the bar in the past, so I have not that much to lose. I'll report back on the results.

    One problem, though, is that the "bar oil" is designed to adhere to the bar to make sure the whole track is coated to reduce friction. When I was unable to obtain "Bar Oil"" I used motor oil with STP added for that reason. That just occured to me. You understand I've been out of the business for several years now. I will, however, make the test after making sure my bar and chain are withot any problems to start with.

    Love is the answer,

    Uncle Ben
     
  7. 4G's

    4G's Junior Member

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    Thanks. Can't wait to hear the results. :)
     
  8. Benjy136

    Benjy136 Junior Member

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    Misty rain today, so will have to postpone experiment.

    Sorry.
    Uncle Ben
     
  9. 4G's

    4G's Junior Member

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    All good. Thanks for checking it out.
     
  10. Benjy136

    Benjy136 Junior Member

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    still raining. My kiwis are loving it and the freshly planted goji berries are getting a good steady soaking, but not good days for tree-cutting.

    Love,
    Uncle Ben
     
  11. Benjy136

    Benjy136 Junior Member

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    Not going to do that on larger trees. The bar gets hot enough at the bottom (cutting) edge to change color, which will take the temper out of the steel. I got through the tree without mushrooming the bar, but it seemed to me that there was some "drag" toward the end of the job. This may have been psychological, as it's been a while since I used this saw last. I believe the veg oil lacks the necessary adhesion and most of it is flung off the bar as the chain pulls it past the tip, leaving the lower (cutting) edge vulnerable to friction. Has anyone looked into "Synthetic" oil?

    Sorry about that.
    Uncle Be

    PS For short term use, as impregnating logs with mushroom spawn (spores) I don't see any problem, though. OH...And I was using used wessen oil (soybean and or cottenseed)
     
  12. 4G's

    4G's Junior Member

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    Great on the rain.
    Bugger on the experiment. Thanks for having a go.
    The stihl bio plus oil is rapeseed/conola. So maybe an equivalent???
     
  13. Benjy136

    Benjy136 Junior Member

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    Sounds as though you may have found the ticket. I don't know how long that option has been around. It's been a good seven years since I've had to buy any chain oil.
    Good to know they've thought about the "organic" woodsman. There may be some hope for us yet.

    Love is the answer,
    Uncle Ben
     
  14. Curramore1

    Curramore1 Junior Member

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    The Stihl bio-oil has been available in Aus for 5 or so years but is expensive as has castor oil engine oil to replace petrochemical 2 stroke oil. The castor oil product gives me a nauseous side effect after 4 or 5 L of fuel used after 5 or 6 hours continual use in a Stihl 066 saw and has an unpleasant odour, possibly a flashback to my childhood when we were given/force fed that and a cod liver or shark liver oil in the winter time once a week. Still have the aftertaste! If you attend a public chainsaw racing event at a show you can smell the castor oil smoke they use.
     
  15. Pakanohida

    Pakanohida Junior Member

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    Most rapeseed / canola is gmo.
     
  16. Benjy136

    Benjy136 Junior Member

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    Do you believe that "Rapeseed/Canola" bought in so-called health food stores labeled Non-GMO can be safely consumed? Of course, as far as using the combo in chain saws, I can't see how it would hurt the environment. It would "break down" and go the way of all Organic matter, in spite of it's manipulation.
    Wake me if I'm dreaming.

    Uncle Ben
     
  17. 4G's

    4G's Junior Member

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    I guess that's the question... Do I spread sawdust with petro chemical lube oil or GM canola?
    Which is worse? Being GM, does it break down or leave residual/trace???
     
  18. 4G's

    4G's Junior Member

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    Does anyone else want to add to the discussion?
    Thanking you in advance
     
  19. Unmutual

    Unmutual Junior Member

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    Use an axe. This answers many environmental questions about cutting down trees including speed/volume of deforestation. It might seem glib, but after thinking about it, using a different lube doesn't solve many environmental issues, if any since they're both refined oils from an organic source and should both break down eventually.
     
  20. 9anda1f

    9anda1f Administrator Staff Member

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    Or perhaps one of these (good for building core strength):
    View attachment 2786
     

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