General discussion on Ethics, Political Structures and understanding others views

Discussion in 'The big picture' started by gardenlen, Aug 11, 2013.

  1. Pakanohida

    Pakanohida Junior Member

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    Ahh but statistically my friend, in the universe... ..NYC is but a village, but in human terms, it started as one.
     
  2. gardenlen

    gardenlen Group for banned users

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    come now paka,

    where is this scottish community you talk of your friend marko reckons i'm fabricating. your story after all.

    len
     
  3. Unmutual

    Unmutual Junior Member

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    I'll post it here too, are you talking about Findhorn?
     
  4. ecodharmamark

    ecodharmamark Junior Member

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    I haven't a clue what he was on about, either. However, it's now of little consequence, as it appears he has joined the 'group for banned users'.
     
  5. ecodharmamark

    ecodharmamark Junior Member

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    I think I found where Len first raised the issue of this fabled Scottish community, it was here:

    And it seems the above was in direct response to the post immediately preceding it:

    Which in itself was in direct response to this:

    So, after all of that ... It does indeed appear that Pak was referring to Findhorn. Of course, Pak will no doubt fill us in, when he gets the chance.
     
  6. kimbo.parker

    kimbo.parker Junior Member

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    Findhorn...Eileen Caddy...gorse devas....and i was 11

    and i fell in love.
    crazy christians and ONE freak crop getting a big ride on Eilleen's sweet inspirational prose.

    it was findhorn at 11 that wiped the christian programing and opened the proto - Pagan's eyes for me.
    it was my first delve into gardening as a spiritual act.
    i still talk to little plant devas but unlike Eilleen, i can't see them.
    (bloody beautiful books they were,,,they hit me like Earthships)


    (banned!) dear me,
    empire.
     
  7. kimbo.parker

    kimbo.parker Junior Member

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    it feels like there has been a hanging
    homogenised and sanitised, the community can get on with things the way we like it.
    and so we evolve.

    dear me
    :(
     
  8. 9anda1f

    9anda1f Administrator Staff Member

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    Not a hanging, merely a parting of ways.

    But wrestle this with me ... is it Perma-ethical to ban someone on a Permaculture forum?

    Are there "bannings" in nature?
     
  9. Grasshopper

    Grasshopper Senior Member

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    Sometimes you have to do some pruning remove an infected limb.

    If I want to listen to the opinions of Andrew Bolt I will go shopping in Gympie and try not to to look to purdy in the mouth,
     
  10. mouseinthehouse

    mouseinthehouse Junior Member

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    9anda1f, there are plenty of examples of social species who expel individuals for various behavioural transgressions. Meerkats, lions, chimpanzees, hyena to name a few.
     
  11. kimbo.parker

    kimbo.parker Junior Member

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    i believe this is the naturally human thing to do.
    i believe, we bury this multicultural bullshit right here right now.
    if it isn't conducive to the mix...schlick.
    this is real....
    and where are the progressive feminists?.....getting old i expect....(but i digress),
    back to the recent burning....i feel guilty.
    and strangely vulnerable....

    when they came for him, i was silent.
    when they come for me....

    hahahahaha
    i'm being melodramitic
    - i have long advocated tighter boarder controls.
    first it was the organic gardeners, then the humanists, then the dam religious - and the game turned to crap.
    this is better.

    this is what a climax woodland looks like.
    never the less, i'll be sleeping with my sword tonight...

    onions, someone should fry some onions.
     
  12. kimbo.parker

    kimbo.parker Junior Member

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    i'm sorry, but this thread has flicked my manic switch,

    we have the elite maintaining public order, the recent burning, and now the protagonists are lining up..
    (where is marko?- note that)

    drumming, i hear drumming.
    i don't know whether to dance or shit.
    cone and both.

    there should be the choice of exile i feel - seriously.
    a real 'banned users group', a place of exile.
    everything has its place - as designers we create 'place' - the masters could provide EXILE.

    (where is Marko, probably off somewhere washing his hands)

    no wait, don't shoot - i was joking iwas jokeing!
     
  13. annette

    annette Junior Member

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    So if Len has been banned I feel quite sad about it. Do we silence those we don't agree with? Or could we just let them say what they like and leave it alone? Do we just want to hear what we want to hear that reinforces our established beliefs? Can we not look past the language that doesn't quite jell with our own educational or experiential experience? Why does alternative views sometimes feel like an attack on our egos to some extent? Why can't we allow those views without taking it personally? We can't we take what we like and leave those with alternative views to their own without feeling personally attacked if someone doesn't agree? If you don't engage it doesn't escalate. Can we look to the intent and not the words? Can we be compassionate and accommodating without baiting? Can we be inclusive of those we don't understand but connect to an a humanitarian level? If not I feel we miss out on a lot of learning.
     
  14. Grasshopper

    Grasshopper Senior Member

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    Depends who was doing the baiting?
     
  15. annette

    annette Junior Member

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    It's not for me to say who was baiting or even if there was any. Only those that consciously did it would know. And if that is the case they need to deal with that in their own hearts.
     
  16. ecodharmamark

    ecodharmamark Junior Member

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    I've (very) infrequently visited other forums where there are such places, e.g. Fantasy Island at the Atheist Foundation of Australia Forum. These are generally places where some - who for whatever reason (and hardly ever, I suspect, as a form of self censure) - find themselves banished to. They are not nice places. Sometimes, they are even places frequented by those whose sole intent is to poke metaphorical sticks through the bars of the cages holding the banished. I don't think I'd like to be a member of a community that keeps people in cages. Much better, I feel, is to attempt to accommodate all people (no matter their predilections), and even if it takes years in the trying, as was the case here. However, and only when all else fails - remembering that this is a public forum, and not some private club - very rarely the axe must fall, and particularly so when a disrupting agenda persists with no possible resolution in sight. I don't like it, I never have, but I understand it. The means justifies the end - tantum pro civitas.
     
  17. kimbo.parker

    kimbo.parker Junior Member

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    yeah i know,
    but i find myself anthropomorphising,
    and imagining i was a refuge...
    clearly i have too much time on my hands now the footy is a done deal.

    i imagine this is what the rapture would be like.

    seriously though, it is disrupting my sleep.
    i feel something of poignancy has happened.

    i feel like i should be saying checkmate.

    cheers,
    k
     
  18. ecodharmamark

    ecodharmamark Junior Member

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    I too share your sadness, Annette. However, this is a public internet forum, the sole intent of which is to further the permaculture cause. Countless hours (many hundreds in my own case alone) have been expended in trying to accommodate Len's views within the broadest of spectrums in an attempt to hold true to the ethics of permaculture. Mostly, and I'll admit I lost my patience on more than one occasion, people have been able to do this in a calm and considerate manner. You've read the threads. You've witnessed the countless times Len was asked to substantiate his many claims, only to have those same requests ignored each and every time. People obviously got tired. The one way street finally came to a dead. The years of trying to accommodate have come to a close. Things change. Life goes on - time and tide waits for no man.
     
  19. ecodharmamark

    ecodharmamark Junior Member

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    Brother K, I share your uneasiness. I'll sleep little myself tonight. But tomorrow my work will go on, as I'm sure yours will too. Take care, M
     
  20. Grasshopper

    Grasshopper Senior Member

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    You might try listening to an Alan Jones podcast and see if the feelings go away
     

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