General discussion on Ethics, Political Structures and understanding others views

Discussion in 'The big picture' started by gardenlen, Aug 11, 2013.

  1. gardenlen

    gardenlen Group for banned users

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    the above is what holgram presented on that page you forwarded.

    i already live with moral ethical ethics, why would i want to add in man doctrine ethics which mean little in the changes we need.

    but you already know that

    len
     
  2. ecodharmamark

    ecodharmamark Junior Member

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    Perhaps you have not yet had a chance to read as far as pp. 7-8, Len?

    Never mind, I've copied-n-pasted them (within their broader discussion) for your convenience, below:

    Ethics of Permaculture

    Ethics act as constraints on survival instincts and the other personal and social constructs of self-interest that tend to drive human behaviour in any society. They are culturally evolved mechanisms for more enlightened self-interest, a more inclusive view of who and what constitutes "us", and a longer-term understanding of good and bad outcomes.

    The greater the power of human civilisation (due to energy availability), and the greater the concentration and scale of power within society, the more critical ethics become in ensuring long-term cultural and even biological survival. This ecologically functional view of ethics makes them central in the development of a culture for energy descent.

    Like design principles, the ethics were not explicitly listed in early permaculture literature. Since the development of the Permaculture Design course, ethics have generally been covered by three broad maxims:

    • Care for the earth (husband soil, forests and water)
    • Care for people (look after self, kin and community)
    • Fair share (set limits to consumption and reproduction, and redistribute surplus).

    These are distilled from research into community ethics, as adopted by older religious cultures and modern cooperative groups. The third ethic, and even the second, can be seen as derived from the first.

    The ethics have been taught and used as simple and relatively unquestioned ethical foundations for permaculture design within the movement and within the wider "global nation" of like-minded people. More broadly, they can be seen as common to all traditional "cultures of place" that have connected people to land and nature throughout history, with the notable exception of modern industrial societies.

    This focus in permaculture on learning from indigenous, tribal and cultures of place is based on the evidence that these cultures have existed in relative balance with their environment, and survived for longer than any of our more recent experiments in civilisation. Of course, in our attempt to live an ethical life, we should not ignore the teachings of the great spiritual and philosophical traditions of literate civilisations, or the great thinkers of the scientific enlightenment and current times. But in the long transition to a sustainable low-energy culture we need to consider, and attempt to understand, a broader canvas of values and concepts than those delivered to us by recent cultural history.


    Would do you reckon, Len? Does any of the above resonate with you?

    Cheerio, Markos
     
  3. Unmutual

    Unmutual Junior Member

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    Outside of care for the earth, I don't really see a conflict with permaculture's ethics with any other religion. The only time care for the earth comes in to conflict seems to be with a narrow usage of the word dominion in the bible. Dominion just means to rule over, it doesn't mean to destroy, abuse or otherwise hurt. Though dominion might, in fact, be a good phrase for it and a lesson to learn too. After all, we know what usually happens to despotic rulers who abuse, murder and enslave their subjects.
     
  4. gardenlen

    gardenlen Group for banned users

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    yeh mark, i've seen them before humans come second.

    and unmutual dominion only means domination to those who have that special desire to dominate, it is like church clergy saying the bible says women must submit to their husbands, well it does not say or mean that, your bias is based on foundless wisdom. and your friends the despots realy do rule by domination and manipulation. anyway take your stabs where you can.

    anyhow mark nothing there to inspire a better caring community.

    len
     
  5. gardenlen

    gardenlen Group for banned users

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    MODERATORS NOTE: The following posts are taken from a thread in which this developed as a side discussion. If you require more context you can visit the original thread called Living Democracy. This first thread by gardenlen refers to David Suzuki....


    isn't he the bloke who once said, his daughters could marry whom they liked so long as the bloke had mongoloid gene pool. sounded racial at the time. don't know where love fits in there, i had some time for him until then. not sure making these people popular helps anything apart from their bank account maybe.

    len
     
  6. gardenlen

    gardenlen Group for banned users

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    g'day eco'

    agree, was having very early chats with mark about this, but by and large from other responses here taking care back from the greedy and the pollies, is only lip service, we don't need to elevate people like suzuki there are heaps out there we need people in reality on the ground here and now. people with self indulgent ego's not wanted.

    len
     
  7. ecodharmamark

    ecodharmamark Junior Member

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    Care to share the names of these people?
     
  8. gardenlen

    gardenlen Group for banned users

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    come on mark, you know who they are all the egotists out theri working for their own personal cause. the ones who get applauded just for smiling.

    len
     
  9. ecodharmamark

    ecodharmamark Junior Member

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    Afraid not. I'm pretty darn good, but I've yet to master the art of mind-reading. Go on, Len, indulge us. Name a couple.
     
  10. gardenlen

    gardenlen Group for banned users

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    not going there,

    just heard this on france 24 international, about the euro issues and how the poor are going to be taxed, "the pleasure of the rich causes suffering to the poor" goes against the grain here but how it is.

    len
     
  11. Grasshopper

    Grasshopper Senior Member

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    didnt expect you would
    too easy to pot someone doing real good from the outside without really having to supply facts or back anything up while worshipping the false god of Business as Usual.
     
  12. gardenlen

    gardenlen Group for banned users

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    why should i i'm sure mark at least has bandied around many names.

    please GH tell me the names of these doing such wondrous things without reward, selflessly.

    me worship any of your false god's let alone geed never, you really don't know me do you?

    think i'll put this in my signature line about the pleasure of those rich you mention, by the suffering of the poor who get ignored here. couldn't hit the nail anymore on the head hey?

    len
     
  13. Grasshopper

    Grasshopper Senior Member

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    I can only judge by your words.
    You threw the dirt on Suzuki and not just once
    You made the suggestions there was better people
    then you retreated back into your cave like a coward
    Put up or shut up

    Lets make this a learning experience for everyone not a pissing competition
     
  14. Grahame

    Grahame Senior Member

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    I don't really understand why good must be always done selflessly and without reward. If it is good, it is good. Surely? If only the good done by flawless, sinless people for totally altruistic (if that exists) reasons counted then there wouldn't be much done would there, if any.

    By all means, lets tear down the wilfully blind, lets tear shreds off those who seek to destroy the Earth and suppress the people. But why would we attack those who are trying to make a difference, those who are trying to save the Earth, those who have a vision and a plan! It makes no sense.
     
  15. ecodharmamark

    ecodharmamark Junior Member

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    I agree, it is totally irrational. But at the same time, I must admit, I am very much drawn to engaging with people who exhibit irrationality. Surely I am not alone. There must be others who share my passion for polemical discourse? Perhaps together we could start an online chapter of Polemics Anonymous: "Hello, my name's Markos, and I'm a polemic".
     
  16. Pakanohida

    Pakanohida Junior Member

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    Really people? 3 pages of it and most of it is 1 troll.

    [​IMG]
    I love it when you make me laugh Markos. Question, wouldn't that be the Anti-1%?
     
  17. Grahame

    Grahame Senior Member

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    Hi, I'm Grahame. I've been a polemic for as long as I can remember. It's been 1 day since my last post.
     
  18. Unmutual

    Unmutual Junior Member

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    I've been trying very hard to curb my habit. If I fall off the wagon, I may join. There are many unposted messages made by me thus far. Sometimes it just feels good to type everything out and then hit cancel. Fair warning to the moderators: my will is not always strong, but I do try.
     
  19. Grasshopper

    Grasshopper Senior Member

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    I think Len plays the Devil's advocate quite well.
    unfortunately I think he believes half of what he types and it ends up going round in circles instead of being open honest and frank and a positive learning experience for both parties.
     
  20. gardenlen

    gardenlen Group for banned users

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    suppose if we wanted to be a tad critical, you GH offer very little, the only advocate i am is for the poor who continue to suffer so the wealthy and elitists can have pleasure, beyond reasonable bound. i don't duck into a cave there again GH you seem to qualified to judge others so.

    so it all comes back to marks dream and why it is not progressing, we can't have a new all equal society if we are going to lord and applaud elitists.

    mean time who here stands for the poor? no good dealing with the big picture if we aren't getting any of the little picture fixed.

    doing good without targeting a reward builds inner character. if you do good because there will be personal acclaim and accolade, then it is false.

    anyhow

    len
     

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