Free Speech is dead!

Discussion in 'The big picture' started by Dalzieldrin, Dec 2, 2009.

  1. Dalzieldrin

    Dalzieldrin Junior Member

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    Please take care about what you discuss on this forum - free speech will not be tolerated!
     
  2. Michaelangelica

    Michaelangelica Junior Member

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    Re: Free Speech is dead!

    These forums are moderated.
    IMO people are given much more leeway, and room to express themselves, here, than on most other forums I have been associated with.
    Moderators don't like playing the heavy but sometimes it is necessary.
    Abuse and personal attacks of people will not be tolerated.
    Offensive topics in bad taste may be closed
    Where a thread has drifted so far from its topic or subject forum it may be closed.
    That doesn't mean that you can't start a new thread on where the closed thread has drifted to, in the appropriate forum. In the case of the thread you are no doubt angry about,-- Eating Human Flesh. It also doesn't mean i won't close it down.;)
     
  3. ppp

    ppp Junior Member

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    Re: Free Speech is dead!

    common man.. we can say pretty much anything.. trying to decipher incoherent "in" discussions.. where you can't work out what is being said.. but assume whatever is being said isn't nice, is not pleasant, nor productive.

    I think if people have something to say... they are more than free here to say it, just not take away other's rights to reasonable respect and reputation.

    I'm sure this includes the couple of recent topics..
     
  4. Dalzieldrin

    Dalzieldrin Junior Member

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    Re: Free Speech is dead!

    i'm very pleased to hear it. I refer you to this recent post,

    viewtopic.php?f=1&t=13923&start=30

    and look forward to seeing how you deal with this abuse.


    what part of your repeated references to this:
    https://www.lawlblog.com/arguing-on-the-internet/

    makes you an arbiter on what constitutes bad taste?

    heaven forbid that a warning be given to bring things back on-topic

    angry? is this about the post, or the poster?

    of course you'll close such a thread down - it's a very human thing to try to destroy what you don't understand.
     
  5. Dalzieldrin

    Dalzieldrin Junior Member

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    Re: Free Speech is dead!

    thanks for this perspective...seriously
    agree with most of the the bit in bold, except that I'm not entirely sure how free we are to say what we want (respectfully or otherwise).

    look the wrong way at someone's sacred cow and they get very jittery
     
  6. bernado soares

    bernado soares Junior Member

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    Re: Free Speech is dead!

    I would like to disagree, I shoot my mouth of pretty regular.I have been banned before you take your chance and take your lumps.I for one like the moderators,they are the thin digital line that keep the great unwashed in check.
    Lets try to think about what we do have, not what we don't have for a change.We do have alot of scope to say just about anything,we dont have alot of jack booting going on.You will see the boards are absolutely rife with idiots spouting all sorts of clap trap.My good friend Fernado Pessoa is an idiot, for sure he is more than happy with the level of freedom he is given,in my opinion he is not fit for human consumption but it just goes to show my point of view ,most are tolerated.
    Bernado
     
  7. springtide

    springtide Junior Member

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    Re: Free Speech is dead!

    No, free speech will not be tolerated.
    It is a permaculture site... you know sustainable agriculture/lifestyle/etc so anything else probably should go.
    Then there is all the easily offended people who usually are the types who don't speak unless they have a good answer - good types to have involved in this forum so we need to protect them a bit.
    If free speech was totally allowed then this site might degrade into some kind of demilitiarized zone - we need moderators (yes i do like some more than others) to maintain some social cohesion.
    As long as i can still swear like all [email protected]#k in my own back yard i am happy to respect someone else's domain.
     
  8. 9anda1f

    9anda1f Administrator Staff Member

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    Re: Free Speech is dead!

    This forum's focus is Permaculture. It's all about sharing information, ideas, techniques, and wisdom aligned to the over-arching Permaculture principle of living in concert with the Earth. Permaculture proposes this is a much better approach to life than the current human approach of living in conflict with nature and strives to apply living in concert to all aspects of human endeavour.

    This one principle applies to our forum. The hope and expectation is that we will "post in concert" with each other, not in conflict.

    One of the essential concepts that was imparted during my PDC was that Permaculture is about "positivism", not "negativism". This was introduced on the first day of the two week course and remained an underlying theme throughout. Positivism defines the underlying spirit of Permaculture and by definition, this forum. Constant negativity by a single poster can undermine this spirit and degrade the high quality of positive sharing here.

    There is a distinct difference between "throwing rocks" at perceived issues and offering considered approaches and solutions to said issues. The former is a negative approach, while the latter supports the spirit of positivism. Our goal is that posters will strive to support the positive spirit inherent to the ideals of Permaculture.

    Bill
     
  9. Dalzieldrin

    Dalzieldrin Junior Member

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    Re: Free Speech is dead!

    First, an apology. Posting this thread and related posts was silly and over-the-top - I shouldn't have done it and I won't do it again.

    If I could offer an explanation: It was in response to this (and this is my summary, others may see it differently):

    - thread about vegetarianism morphed into discussion about eating humans, controversial perhaps, but something well within the over-arching principle of living in concert with the Earth
    - the thread was described as silly and was locked
    - I asked the moderator in question about this and was told nothing more than "there has been enough "free expression"." with no further explanation offered.
    - several other threads have been locked with similarly (seemingly) snap judgements

    I have just PM'd the moderator in question and explained that I thought it reasonable to suppose that this was capriciousness on his part.

    that the thread was locked or not isn't the issue - the issue is partly that there was no explanation but mostly because of who did the locking. It stems from an offensive post made by the moderator in question that has not yet been satisfactorily resolved. Until it is resolved I cannot see how that moderator can adjudicate on what constitutes appropriate behaviour.

    I have PM'd this in more detail to the moderator in question and I look forward to reading his post in the relevant thread.
     
  10. Flying Binghi

    Flying Binghi Junior Member

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    Re: Free Speech is dead!

    Tsk, tsk..........., and heres me thinking Michaelangelica were an omnivore. Then ah reads this from the closed vegy thread -

    "...on vegetarianism; There seems little doubt that the evidence is in that wide ranging vegetarian diet is best for the human body and the planet. But when have we ever done anything that is good for us-- or for the planet for that matter..."

    LOL, ah thinks the real problem for the vegys were the meat eaters had the upper hand...yet again..... :p





    .
     
  11. pebble

    pebble Junior Member

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    Re: Free Speech is dead!


    Lovely post Bill. It reads like a response to recent threads etc on the forum but instead of targeting individuals or making judgements about them you have instead focussed on presenting a solution. For me this is an incredibly important aspect of permaculture - that we can Pc our relationships with each other (esp those we disagree with or who push our buttons) as much as our relationships with the land. I would love to see this taught and I'm interested if it is covered at all in PDCs?

    I'm quite a critical person and I love a good argument but one of the reasons I am on this forum is because I know it fosters a kinder approach in me. I constantly remind myself about the positivism aspect of Pc and try (not always successfully) to focus on that rather than on just critiquing someone else's words or beliefs. I'd like to get better at this.

    There is a saying, which I can't remember so I'll paraphrase. When responding to someone I can ask three things. Is what I am about to say:

    1. useful?

    2. true?

    3. kind?

    If it's not those three things, is there any need to say it? Again, I can't say I am good at this but it seems like a good skill to have because it fosters goodwill and creativity instead of pain and negativity between people.

    (and I am NOT saying that all communication has to be fluffy bunnies and fairy niceness).

    So for me it's the issue isn't about 'free speech' (which doesn't exist anywhere absolutely so why should it here?) but about what is the usefulness of my speech and how I am using it.
     
  12. pebble

    pebble Junior Member

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    Re: Free Speech is dead!

    Dalz, thanks for making an apology :)

    I haven't read that thread recently so I don't know what happened, but I do agree if a moderator has been involved in a debate type thread by posting their own personal views then they may not be the best moderator to moderate the thread (it can be quite hard to separate out the different roles). Is it possible for one of the other moderators to do so?


    I would really appreciate it if people would stop reposting that link with the special olympics in it.
     
  13. kimbo.parker

    kimbo.parker Junior Member

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    free speech etc....

    i'm spewing that i missed this,,,i've
    scanned the posts and got the gist.................

    you guys are all family and you are having a disagreement.
    i like the way dezeildren came back...
    i liked the way MA got serious........(in a laid back way)
    i liked the way 'G' put it, and Springtide..............................
    this thread certainly pulled in some names.


    I speak confrontationally most of the time,,,it is a character flaw, my dysfunction,,,,i get shat on by the players a bit, but i have never been modded quite.
    This to me is freedom of speech.

    ps MA "long pork", that is what the Chinese call it......shades of Hannibal Lector...

    regards,
    Kimbo
     

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