Fracking-- just when you get your head around one environmental disaster. . .

Discussion in 'The big picture' started by Michaelangelica, Feb 22, 2011.

  1. Pakanohida

    Pakanohida Junior Member

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  2. Michaelangelica

    Michaelangelica Junior Member

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    Had to look up Giedi Prime of House Harkonnen A long time since I read Dune But i suppose you mean a planet that looks like this (Giedi)
    [​IMG]
     
  3. eco4560

    eco4560 New Member

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    The worm is called Monsanto.
     
  4. Michaelangelica

    Michaelangelica Junior Member

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  5. Michaelangelica

    Michaelangelica Junior Member

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    'Phony' Claims In Coal Seam Gas Ads
    By Shannon Andreucci


    Tags: we want gas shannon andreucci lock the gate coal seam gas
    An ad campaign touting the benefits of coal seam gas drilling has been launched - and provoked a formal complaint about false environmental claims, reports Shannon Andreucci

    Activist group Lock The Gate has lodged a formal complaint against the advertising campaign "We want CSG" for making false environmental claims about coal seam gas mining.

    As well as touting the economic benefits of coal seam gas, the ads claim CSG is cleaner than other energy sources and that fracking, in which rocks are cracked to release gas, has been found to be a safe technology. https://newmatilda.com/2011/09/19/phony-claims-coal-seam-gas-ads
     
  6. ecodharmamark

    ecodharmamark Junior Member

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  7. annette

    annette Junior Member

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    I saw an executive on tv sprouting the fact that the coal seam gas industry is the most regulated and well controlled industry ever. What a load of tripe. Sure they have to do reports on aquifers and cummulative impact zones and monitoring. But you know what? There is no requirement to stop if the aquifer is about to be ruined. The report will say, draw down is this and expected to be that in 6 months time. Even a decline in water quality has to be proved to be linked the decline in water levels. So nice report and nice monitoring but it doesn't change anything at all. They have no idea what connectivity exists in most places.
     
  8. ecodharmamark

    ecodharmamark Junior Member

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    *** TV ALERT ***

    SBS TV (Australia)

    Tuesday 20 September 2011 @ 7.30pm (Repeated Friday 1:30pm, Monday 2:30pm SBS ONE, Friday 8:30pm SBS TWO)

    As more exploration and drilling licenses are granted, coal seam gas mining is generating jobs, headlines, protests, town hall meetings and advertising campaigns.

    Insight focuses on the Queensland region of Chinchilla-Dalby, where the CSG industry has operated for many years, to look at the impacts – environmental, social and financial.

    Real estate agents, hotels, butchers, hairdressers and residents have different views on whether the boom is good for their town. Farmers are also divided - some are worried that the mining process will contaminate their land and use too much precious water, while others report no problems and say they’re doing well out of the gas rush.

    Meanwhile, industry representatives say coal seam gas mining is safe. But some farmers and residents want more evidence, and are pushing for greater regulation and monitoring.


    Coal Seam Gas (Web Extra)

    *** END ALERT ***
     
  9. Michaelangelica

    Michaelangelica Junior Member

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    The problem in Oz is that the Eastern States have one big aquifiers, probably bigger than Europe, The Great Artesian Basin. If we pollute that, the economic and social costs will be humongous. I still can't find out EXACTLY what chemicals are used; if I knew that, i could make up mt own mind about their safety. I am sick of condecending chemists telling me 'such and such' chemical/s are 'safe'.

    Further I seriously doubt that this gas is a better green house option than coal. (biochar might be) I am sure it is probably putting a lot of free methane etc into the atmosphere. CO2 is just one of many green house gasses and by no means the most harmful by a county mile.
    BTW
    I have always been puzzled by peoples' resistance to the idea of global warming. However I came across an interesting book yesterday(Sack's autobiography a great read for frustrated chemists) about how it took Chemists over 100 years to accept the idea of atomic structure of matter/chemicals. If a trained, educated chemist can take that long to accept a new idea it is little wonder that a scientifically illiterate population/county does.
     
  10. annette

    annette Junior Member

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    well apparently the chemicals are commercial in confidence and cannot be revealed. until they put the environmental authorities on the web for everyone to see we will not know.

    Interestingly, the NSW gov have imposed a 3 megalitre limit in the regulation under the Water management act for miners. This means that if they extract more than 3 megs in the course of their mining operations they have to get a water entitlement. It's a start at least.
     
  11. Michaelangelica

    Michaelangelica Junior Member

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    Interesting don't think they haven't done that with Coca Cola's aquifer/ water plant at Somersby (central Coast NSW) in a shire that has been on severe water restrictions now for going on 10 years.
    Forget the oil wars, water is the next battle royal.

    We need to know what chemicals they are using and in what quantities, and stop being treated like brain dead mushrooms.
     
  12. annette

    annette Junior Member

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    Not sure about the all the laws regulating water in other jurisdictions other than Queensland. In Queensland the take of water is regulated under the Water Act. However if it is for mining, gas and petroleum they have a right to take for those purposes under the Petroleum and Gas Act and do not need an entitlement. those operations are regulated as environmentally relevant activities under the Environmental Protection Act and as such must have an environmental authority which SHOULD include ways in which the envirnoment will be protected and or rehabilitated. In regards to coal seam gas, there have been amendments to try and do some things to tighten it all up, but again there is too much wriggle room. There was an amendment to stop the use of evaporation ponds but that changed to if you can do something else you will but can still use evaporation ponds if there is no other way. There were amendments last year to ban the use of btex chemicals in fraccing operations. Those amendments were never commenced. There are moves to put the environmental authorities on the net. If you look at the Queensland DERM website there is a speel about how many chemicals can be used in these operations.

    Water is a political hot potato for sure. that's why I made sure I bought somewhere that didn't have reticulated water. I want control over what is in it and how much I pay for it (nothing).
     
  13. Michaelangelica

    Michaelangelica Junior Member

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    https://www.theaustralian.com.au/na...raction-projects/story-fnaxx2sv-1226210638722
    THE last of the big liquid natural gas projects proposed for central Queensland could be delayed if the recommendations of a Senate committee are accepted.

    It has recommended a moratorium on future coal-seam gas projects until further studies are undertaken, but three of the major CSG projects in Queensland have already received state and federal government approval.

    The one outstanding project yet to receive state and federal government approval is one proposed by Australian company Arrow Energy in partnership with international energy giant Shell and PetroChina, worth about $15 billion.
     
  14. annette

    annette Junior Member

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    We can only hope.
     
  15. Michaelangelica

    Michaelangelica Junior Member

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    I think our Geography is soo differnt to the Yanks.
    pollution of the Great Artesian Basin in Queensland will eventually turn up in NSW or Victoria.
    We can't afford to throw away water resources.
     
  16. S.O.P

    S.O.P Moderator

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    Someone else's problem Michaelangelica, full steam ahead!
     
  17. Pakanohida

    Pakanohida Junior Member

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    USA is a country with roughly a watershed on the East Coast, destroyed by Colonial invasion. This is the watershed, easterly, of the Appalachian Mountains, which has one hell of a hiking trail from GA to Maine. The west side of those mountains, till the Rockies, is FLAT... and water from this side of the shed goes into rivers like the Mississippi. The other side of the river, and east of the Rockies is the water shed of the Rockies, and beneath it is a giant frac'n aquafir. It is so large in fact, that TX is suing Oklahoma for water from a Native American reservation which essentially is another country all together technically. The Rocky Mountains then spread from Colorado all the way to the Pacific Ocean. I cannot express to anyone how flat the Midwest is, I understand the Oz "outback" near Ayer's rock comes close... ..but that rock is as out of place seeming in Oz as it would be in the US Midwest because it is that annoyingly flat.

    That aquifer in the Midwest is beyond huge, and it is nearly completely depleted already thanks to corn farmers and poor management of farms in the Midwest a la the USDA. It would be an utterly different world if we actually worked our Indigenous peoples world wide, because if you have ever read Food Forests Vol 1, Chapter 1, you would realize that the US used to be a giant food forest, which humans destroyed.
     
  18. Michaelangelica

    Michaelangelica Junior Member

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    Thanks Pakanohida
    for the Geography lesson
    You think you have flat? Come here we will show you flat!
    (You have real mountains we have Kosciusko)
    It must be a nightmare with all those state rights; we only have four on the E coast and that nearly starts wars; at the moment about the joint "owned" Murray Darling River system which roughly sits atop the Great Artesian Basin.
     
  19. Pakanohida

    Pakanohida Junior Member

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    I dunno... I took a train from NYC to Oakland once... and from Pennsylvania to Colorado it was flat and a monoculture, with the exception of 1 baseball field in the middle of some corn w/ massive lights. Terrifying, and honestly all I remember from that trip, through those states. Endless monoculture.
     
  20. annette

    annette Junior Member

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    they built it and they came.............
     

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