Hi all, I'm looking at buying a 1/2 acre lot with a house on it. It's in the Northern hemisphere, zone 7 (it's -36 C here this morning), and gets easily into the mid 30's (Celsius) during the summer. The site runs NW - SE and slopes toward the NW by roughly 3-5 degrees. It is currently pretty much all grass with a densely planted pines along the South facing boundary. There is a septic field at the front of the section and it's the only flat part of the land. Any suggestions for developing it? It slopes away from the sun and has a septic field near the low point in the property which has me a little stumped. Oh, and the property is on Canadian shield which means the topsoil is shallow, boggy and acidic. I'll need to check but there may not be enough soil to build a swale.
Farside, you might want to start your own thread because this thread is really about SOP's property and her system of Permaculture. Your questions will probably get lost in here. I've got a list of things to look for that I give to people looking for real estate in my area, and I'd be glad to post it, but it probably shouldn't be here.
G'day Farside Here are some other factors that you may wish to consider before you buy land. Cheerio, Markos
SOP, oh, I'm so sorry! I don't know where I got that impression!! My bad! It is really interesting how your food forest is going. You have inspired me to keep better records!
Farside: Real Estate considerations: This is not a comprehensive list, nor does it guarantee you'll find out everything you'll need to know. STAY SKEPTICAL: It's easy to find what looks like a great place, only to find out it is a sinkhole of expense, and didn't really have the qualities we thought it did. Just because a house has been in place for 50 years or more doesn't mean it isn't riddled with very expensive repair/drainage/septic/plumbing/mold/water issues. I thought anywhere in a rural location on the coast would work for me, but it turns out I really wanted very specific criteria, lots of sun, lots of water, lots of room (I'd rather have acreage than a big house). Being rural for me is enjoying the out-of-doors, not maintaining a large dream house (or nightmare house, however you want to look at it. I'd rather be outside surrounded by privacy, than just sitting on a porch looking at nature, or looking out a picture window. Living in a rural place is very maintenance oriented. We either pay for someone else to do it, or we do it ourselves. If it will be days before help arrives, we need to know how to do it on our own. Spare time is often just checking on things to make sure nothing is going wrong. Make sure all additions/remodels were done with permits. If not, some counties give the new buyer 18 months to bring things up to Code, and that can add huge expenses to what was already paid for the property, and swallow one's life and surroundings in contractors, mess, dust, construction noise, unexpected expenses. One story or two story? I found when I had a two-story house, every time I needed something it was on the floor I wasn't on. I was constantly going up and down stairs. It really creeped me out to be upstairs and night and hear noises downstairs. I always had the feeling I couldn't escape if I needed to. Can you get up on the roof? Small leaks and occasional repair/maintenance will have to happen, can you get up on it safely? Walk around on it safely? My parents had a large pine tree come down in a heavy rainstorm, the branches crashed through the roof and walls. The house was redtagged and the contents would have been ruined if my dad couldn't get up on the roof and chainsaw out the limbs, and put a tarp over it until help arrived. Wind: How windy does it get there, and how open is it? Wind does more damage than just about anything. It brings down trees, it causes power outages it rips structures apart. If it's close enough to the ocean, the wind might actually blow all day and not stop at all. Flooding: Whether the house is on a creek or river, or uses a road that crosses a creek or river, will that flooding keep you from getting there or damage the the structure if the floor (and well) gets covered in water? Power Outages: What alternative source of power do you have if the power goes out for two weeks and you have a freezer full of expensive food, no heat, no way to pump water out of the well? Location: How long will you have to drive to and from work? The real estate agents told me when we bought our place that they stay friendly with people for two years because a lot of them can't stand the 2 hour total commute each day, through mudslides, heavy rain, fallen trees, hitting deer, driving over large rocks and damaging cars, sliding on hidden ice patches, time constraints, etc. Social life: Almost everyone you know will come visit once, but after that they will say it's too far, they don't like driving back after dark on mountain roads. You will end up doing the driving to maintain old friendships. Make sure you like your neighbors, because they will be your social life. Vehicles: Sports cars on mountain roads don't have clearance over rocks, and deer and that hit the front end just slide right through the windshield. Lawyers Equipment I've worked for told me I was driving a rolling coffin when I had my RX7. Mowing becomes a way of life. Regular lawn mowers cannot handle weeds, especially in the spring when growth is vigorous. Hauling - unless you want to pay for everyone else to haul in gravel, household things, lumber, large items, you'll need a truck. Chainsaw - you may not need it often, but when trees die, and they often do for no obvious reason, they need to come down so they won't fall on a shed or a house. a chainsaw helps with firewood. Clears away branches and dead trees for fire protection. Barking dogs: Seems like everyone has a barking dog in a rural location, they bark 24/7, and sound carries like crazy because there are no intervening houses and fences to block the sound. Raccoons and critters wandering around at night often set off the barking. Bicycles: If the main road to the property is a popular road for bicycles, it can be very dangerous driving on weekends. Large groups are hard to get around, especially on blind turns and they are either going 2 miles an hour or 30 miles an hour and are difficult to get around. Cars coming the other way often cross over the line, without regard to blind corners, to get around bicycles, and suddenly you'll have a fast oncoming car in your lane. Where I am helicopters have to take people to hospitals. The ambulances take people from where the crash is, sometimes several miles to where the helicopter can land, being taken over fields in a stretcher to get into the 'copter. Get really good insurance. Local Events: Is this property near to where large events are held, Wine Festivals, Pumpkin festivals, bicycle races, farmers' markets? Is it on a road leading to these events? Does traffic get so heavy it's stop and go? Is parking in front of your place going to be an issue when these happen? Find out how many people each of these things brings in, and you can see how many cars will need to park where there usually isn't much parking. Neighbors: Neighbors tell on neighbors, so if you can see your neighbors, they can see you, and they are watching. If you start doing things that require a permit,odds are you will be outted and made to either get a permit through proper channels or tear things down. Land: 1. Water - If you don't have year-'round, clean drinking water, you are probably paying too much for the property. Land without enough water is a constant struggle. Don't believe remarks like, "Oh, there's plenty of water around here." If it isn't there already, something is fishy. New wells needs expensive permits and are expensive to find and drill. Every week you'll have to have water brought in at big expense and effort. Cooking/cleaning and drinking water, showering can be 5-6 gallons a day per person. This does not include flushing water, which could be grey water instead. Well? spring? How many gallons per minute? all year or part of the year? tested for minerals like iron, and contamination? What kind of pump in a well - electrical =$$$ How deep in the well, how many fractures did they hit? Is it lined so it won't cave in? Lakes, Ponds Looking for property in the driest time of the year allows you to see Streams: just how low the water gets, especially wells and springs. If you get a well tested in mid-winter, it may not even have half that much water in the summer. Do you have water rights? Is there a limit on the amount of water you have a right to? Is there contamination happening upstream? Whether it's cows pooping in the water, or old septic pits (not tanks) leaking out of the soil, check for contamination with a swimming pool tester kit. Are any fish in the creeks protected by State Law, and therefore the water cannot be used? Salmon come up local creeks every year and are protected. 2. Sloped? Flat? How does the runoff flow - check Google Maps for aerial view of surrounding land (continued)
(continued) 3. Kind of soil, clay (meaning water will not flow quickly away and it will expand and contract, allowing foundation to move. loam or sandy soil? 4. Talk to the neighbors, find out the history 5. Are there houses uphill from it, and how will their runoff/landscaping affect you? 6. Access to sunlight all year 'round, even when sun is low in the sky? Redwood trees often block out light completely, it's very wet and moldy underneath them 7. Get it tested for Mold inside walls or under house. 8. Driveway, gravel? Cost to maintain gravel? Gravel in clay sinks continuously, and needs to be replaced every few years. 9. Redwood trees - there's often mold created underneath these that require professional removal and make people sick they continually drop "leaves" that leave redwood stains on cars, decks, etc. 10. Pine trees - shallow, large roots get into septic lines, septic tanks, get under foundations and crack them, constant dropping of needles need sweeping and unclogging gutters. Constant dropping of pitch, hard to clean off of decks and roof 11. Insects/rodents - they get into everything, they eat everything. it is a constant vigilant effort to find them and stop them. Ants get into electrical and phone connection boxes, and walls and short things out. Rats and mice chew through floors, then get into walls and tear everything up. If you aren't going to live on the property full time, there will be constant cleanup and damage control when you do go there. 12. Get it checked for radon and other conditions that large underground rock formations create. Granite contains uranium, even granite countertops. Some rock formations near the ocean leak radon, which is unhealthy, but it also contaminates water. 13. Make sure it's a legal parcel. If it's not big enough to be a legal parcel (some rural locations require minimum acreage before one is allowed to build on it) If you can't build on it, how can you sell it? Always have the parcel surveyed to determine official property lines. So often it's discovered that a house or garage or well is a foot or two over a property line. Surveys never get cheaper. Putting this off may keep you from finding out your neighbor's structure is on your property, and that affects the value of the property. House: 1. Be sure to get a professional inspection and written report 2. Heating: Type and Cost of heating? Having to bring in propane is expensive and prices keep going up, especially just the deliver y truck cost. Wood is also expensive. Starting up a woodstove takes a good hour before any heat comes out, and if it's started too late at night, what's the point, unless it is maintained all night long by you getting up every couple of hours. Some days are Spare the Air Days, and if you have another source of heat, you might be fined for starting a fire. Where would you store cords (plural) of wood? Rats, mice, hornets love to live in wood piles, have easier access to under your house. 3. Year house built - bolted to foundation? Insulated? Kind of insulation: type of foundation? Engineered foundation, i,.e., piers deep into the soil in bedrock? or just piers on, shallowly in soil. See if there's a soil engineering report available. 4. Check for Galvanize pipes that often rot out in about 20-30 years. In the 1960's and 1970s lots of plumbing was done with galvanized pipes, which start leaking and have to be completely replaced. Condominium associations are having lots of problems with this. Eventually PVC pipe started being used. 5. Is there the potential for passive solar heating? Small eaves, large windows, house walls down to the ground - not up on piers with open crawl space. completely insulated, roof and floor, to hold in solar heat. Dark house color, dark roof shingles, longest wall facing sun for 8-10 hours a day? No overhead trees? No trees blocking sun. Can a fan be installed in a hot attic to bring that heat into the living area? Can heat pumps be installed underground, below freezing soil, to take advantage of Earth's constant temps? A lot of houses are on rock formations that are good for foundations, but you can't get low enough for a passive heat pump. 6. I found it helpful to ask everyone to leave and have a good half hour or hour to sit still in the house alone, see how it feels, not just how it looks. See how the sun comes in, really look at the views, try to pick up on the mood of the place and the mood it puts you in. 7. Taxes are forever. Staying put will enable you to pay off a mortgage, but taxes never stop. The more you sell and buy up, the higher the taxes will be, and can often become extremely high when you get to the point in life where you don't have a mortgage, but have to pay a lot every month in taxes. and they will almost always go up. 8. Homeowner Association Fees: The real estate people tried to convince me that in a rural location there are lots of issues with geography/geology/maintenance that don't happen in established neighborhoods in a city, and that if everyone pays towards maintenance, insurance and communal areas, that that makes a rural life easier. But it makes it very expensive, especially if some parts of the association are precarious, vulnerable to sliding/road damage by large delivery trucks and heavy use (asphalt repair and replacement is extremely expensive. fast runoff down a slope can undermine it, making it sink, creating expensive repairs.) Lawsuits involve an expense for everyone. Get at least 7-8 years of records and minutes of the association, find out what lawsuits there have been/are, and what kind of maintenance issues they've had.
The site is a semi-urban location and permaculture is not the primary reason for purchasing. I'm hoping to make the best of a less than ideal situation. No worries, I'm up for a challenge
Maintaining a boat? Good luck with that! You didn't have anything else in mind for your spare time, I hope!! About the property, sounds like you have made up your mind? Then the only question remaining is, can you sell it? If you change your mind or the challenge becomes too much, can you get out of it? And the best scenario would be, can you make a profit, after real estate agent fees?
haha, I saw the comprehensive list and my first reaction was "overwhelmed". We moved into town about 3 years ago and have been looking to buy a house ever since. Good houses are hard to come by and I work a lot from home so we need something big enough for an office and the tribe. It's situated close to a lot of outdoor recreational facilities and is quiet so the kids can ride their bikes etc without much traffic danger. The site gets sun all day even in winter which has a lot to do with the lack of mature trees. Driveways and fences here suffer a lot from frost heave and other ground movement so yes, there is maintenance issues to think about but that is city wide. The roofs here last about 15 years which is another item to consider. The area is on city water and septic. With the bedrock being so close to the surface, there are drainage / flooding issues but this site is sloping and elevated so I don't think this will be an issue here. I'm used to houses being built in harmony with the contour of the land, but where I'm currently living, they tend to build cube houses and just carve a flat spot in the land to fit the cube if the site is not flat. It's pretty darn ugly and it interferes with the indoor / outdoor flow. As a result, we'll need to address that with some decking and maybe a bit of terracing or landscaping to soften the lines and make it more functional in the summer months. I'd love to create a micro climate here but I suspect the aspect means it's going to be an uphill battle in that department. the climate is marginal for a lot of things (like tomatoes). If I can extend the growing season by even two weeks then that would make a huge difference.
