Evergreen organics, Veggie patch from scratch.

Discussion in 'Members' Systems' started by Nickolas, Sep 28, 2012.

  1. Nickolas

    Nickolas Junior Member

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    I am starting a new no-dig Vegetable patch this year on top of my hard clay pan, If all goes to plan this year I will be growing potatoes, corn, strawberries, garlic, leeks, onions, tomato, kale, radish, silver beet, Jerusalem artichoke, lettuce, salsify, Russian sunflower, fennel, dill, saffron, parsley, basil, sage, mint, lemon balm, comfrey, tarragon, cucumbers, squash’s, pumpkins, zucchini, rock melons, beans, peas, eggplant, chili pepper, capsicum, spring onion, okra, kohlrabi, beetroot. Most of the vegetables are heirloom varieties.

    No-dig vegetable bed diagram.
    View attachment 1465
    And i know i said they were going to be no-dig vegetable beds but i have dug three shallow 2-3 inch trenches to give the potato true roots a chance to brake up the hard clay pan. if i didnt have a hard clay pan i probably wouldnt have dug the trenches.


    View attachment 1466
    The carbon mix is made from 3 part shredded straw, 3 part shredded autumn leaves, 3 part shredded cardboard, 2 parts sawdust, 1 part powdered charcoal.
     

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  2. eco4560

    eco4560 New Member

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    Do keep us updated with progress reports as you go.
     
  3. S.O.P

    S.O.P Moderator

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    While the trenches will help, you could of stayed true to the No-Dig and used a broad fork, or anything with tines, to puncture the clay pan and then aerate by liting/changing the angle of attack.

    Tis going to be a nice bed when it's broken down. Also, I thought manure was the first thing put down, is the straw to add some air for the roots above the pan?
     
  4. Grahame

    Grahame Senior Member

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    Hi Nikolas,

    Are talking about a heavy clay soil or an actual claypan? If it's a simple heavy soil issue then the no dig garden is a good way of breaking it up and turning that clay soil into a really nice soil. However, if it is a claypan (or hardpan) in the true sense then you may find drainage is an issue. You may also find that the plant roots don't bother trying to penetrate the clay layer as it will be so much easier to just spread out through the compost. This can create poorly anchored and susceptible plants. You may also, exacerbate the problem by creating a more distinct boundary between layers. You may need to 'work' some organic matter into the top part of the old soil. Other options might be, considerably raised beds or some deep-ripping before you put anything on top.

    if it were me I'd do a bit more mixing of the interface.
     
  5. Nickolas

    Nickolas Junior Member

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    I forgot to say that each bed is 1.6 meters wide and about 70cm high in the center.

    in part I the is down first for a bit of air flow but mainly to help with drainage. Esther Deans No-dig gardening book has got a diagram that shows newspaper as the 1st of 6 layers, Lucerne hay 2nd layer, manure 3rd layer, . Patricia Lenza's Lasagna gardening book also has a diagram that shows newspaper as the 1st of 11 layers, peat moss as the 2nd layer and manure as the 3rd.

    solid clay all the way! we live on the side of a hill, we do not have a single area of level ground on our land(which helps a lot with drainage). the shallow trenches lined with straw run down hill to aid with drainage but I make sure each bed isn’t too long(no more than 5 meters long) so the water doesn’t have to far to travel on its way out of each of the raised beds.


    I grew a 2 meter by 2 meter bed of sweet corn last year in a bed similar to the diagram above, we have very strong winds here and none of the corn had any problems with anchorage. I did however get 248 corn cobs out of that 2 meter by 2 meter bed. that same bed now has broad beans in it which are now about 2.3 meters tall and will be ready for me to start harvesting soon. I am also growing garlic in a separate bed which was made in a similar way to the diagram above, the garlic bulbs are about 40mm in diameter at the moment.

    that’s why I thought it was a good idea to make the carbon mix but also to stop the autumn leaves from matting. I made the trenches not just for drainage but also to help direct the roots down to the area in the bottom of each trench, which is where a lot of water is from time to time.
     
  6. Grahame

    Grahame Senior Member

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    No probs then (I wouldn't call that a claypan). Clay is one of the best problems to have - packed full of goodies. Just keep piling on the organic matter and Robert will be you mothers male sibling.

    I still think it's worth doing a bit of tickling in at the interface though.
     
  7. Jetanalken

    Jetanalken Junior Member

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    Well, I am also asking to do the same, but in addition to this I have a question also, is the mix prepared by you is also appropriate for growing watermelon as I am also interested to grow this fruit including few from your growing list.
     
  8. eco4560

    eco4560 New Member

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    To be honest I haven't had any luck with water melon. I think the local climate is not quite right - too dry when it needs to be wet or something. I got skinny looking weedy vines with tiny fruit in my first year and haven't tried again. Maybe I should now that my soil's had more work. Pumpkins I can grow though!
     
  9. Nickolas

    Nickolas Junior Member

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    When it comes to water melons in the tropics you probably won't be able to control the beetles or the mildew, once the build up for the wet season starts. And it isn't worth it anyway... The oppressive high heat and the humidity just aren't good conditions for growing watermelons.

    I cant see it being a problem, I have never grown water melon this way before. I was going to give water melon a try this year but I haven’t got enough time, I might not even have enough time and materials to grow all of the things that are on my growing list but we will see. I might give water melon a go next year next year though.
     
  10. Nickolas

    Nickolas Junior Member

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    Information update

    One more thing is that this type of no-dig garden usually settles to around ½ its height over the next 2-4 months (one season). In this time the layers that you put down will turn into fertile black compost. After these few months any vegetables should grow very well in the no-dig garden. However, in those first 2-4 months (the first growing season of the bed), the following vegetables will not grow especially well in a no-dig garden, so don’t be disheartened:
    Root vegetables – eg. carrots, parsnips, onions, beetroot
    Beans or peas.
    These veggies will grow well from the second season onwards.
    To maintain the health of the no-dig garden area Evergreen Organics recommends adding home-made compost at least once a year (the start of Spring), but preferably twice a year (the start of Spring and the start of Autumn) as well as mulch (the carbon mix makes a great mulch by the way).
     
  11. Nickolas

    Nickolas Junior Member

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    The Jerusalem artichokes have been planted with 2 of out 8 have come up so fare, the first lot of corn has been planted with 48 seedlings out of 52 seed, I am going to sow the second and final lot of corn seeds on the 13/11/12 so I can lengthen my harvesting period, the silverbeet and kale are in and the potatoes are in with 4 shoots now up out of the straw.

    For the first few seasons I wont have enough materials to make all of the beds needed to grow all of the things on my list but I will be able to grow most of them.

    This is at a different location but last week I harvest my first crop of garlic, I grew the garlic the same way as I am with my new no-dig beds in the diagram.
    [​IMG]
     
  12. wrongtern

    wrongtern Junior Member

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    Hi Nikolas...I'm a newbie to this site so a bit tentative about correcting more senior members posts...but (you knew there was a but, right?) eco4560 actually seems to live on the Sunshine Coast which is not a tropical climate...the true Tropics start north of Rocky I believe, Sunshine Coast would be sub tropical, and as for Water Melons not growing in the tropics we used to have a commercial grower at the end of our road in the outer suburbs of Cairns and he used to sell his bumper harvest from a roadside stall every year. Cairns is most definitely Wet Tropics & Watermelons thrive!
     
  13. BananaBender

    BananaBender Junior Member

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    No problem growing melons up here north of Cairns in the wet tropics.

    Ive grown "star & moon" for about 3 years now in dry and through the wet season no problems at all. No mildew or pest problems.

    Its as voracious as sweet potato when it gets going and in the wet season those melons get really really juicy :)

    Sorry to rock the boat fellahs.

    Heres one from feburary this year in the wet season to show what i mean.

    [​IMG]



    [​IMG]
     
  14. eco4560

    eco4560 New Member

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    I've planted a few seedlings this year to try again....
     
  15. Nickolas

    Nickolas Junior Member

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    thanks for the info, i love it when i am proven wrong! especially when the outcome is more food.
     
  16. wrongtern

    wrongtern Junior Member

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    Great garlic harvest! We've just started digging ours here in Tassie...Jerusalem Artichokes have gone crazy...well over a metre tall already, looking forward to the Broad Beans & Peas in a few weeks but still have plenty in the garden....and how good does that watermelon look?
     
  17. pippimac

    pippimac Junior Member

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    Apologies for dragging this thread ot, but I'm too curious:
    I've always thought Tassie and most of NZs climates were relatively similar, but I won't be digging my super-early red garlic until mid December, and the rest probably mid Jan.
    What am I missing here? Garlic is front and centre in my plant pantheon and if I can stretch the harvest over months...
     
  18. wrongtern

    wrongtern Junior Member

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    Hi Pippimac...the Garlic I just harvested were 'volunteers' left over from last year...must have been a few missed when I harvested them, my main crop will be ready in a week or so, I stick to the old tradition of planting on the shortest day (or thereabouts), last year I also harvested close to the longest day which is also the traditional 'right time'..I found that altho' it was good Garlic it was a bit overmature....some of the heads were springing open hence why I had individual cloves left in the ground...my 'volunteers'!!
    We are in the Tasmanian midlands....not the coldest part but much harsher than the coastal areas...we can have frost at anytime of the year, the first year we were here all our beans were wiped out by frost in February!
     
  19. BananaBender

    BananaBender Junior Member

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    I thought I should share how I plant my watermelons out if it helps at all.

    I plant seedlings into raised mounds that are rich in compost and mulch. Most places I plant are full sun all day.
    Usually I plant 4 seedlings per mound and cage them to keep the bandicoots out while they establish. I let the vines grow out of the cage and go where they want to go and do their thing.
     

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