Recently I listened to this 2013 podcast from thepermaculturepodcast.com about edible forest gardens where the speaking guest, Dave Jacke, in a short bit mentioned his disillusionment with the term "permaculture" when discussing with others who are not "aware." Instead, he chooses to reference his methodology and design like it, "ecological design," to avoid the negative connotations associated with smitten "permaculturists." Some quotes, not exact quotations: "We've gotten to a point where...the word is: disconnection, alienation or separation is root cause [of the worlds problems]." 13:25 Permanent Agriculture to Permanent Culture 16:30 "I've always had a problem with the word 'permaculture,' to be honest. If you know anything about Buddhism or life, the only thing permanent about life is change. I actually prefer to call it "Ecological Culture Design," because I like to call things what they are and avoid jargon. I don't really care what we call it...but lets do the work." Permaculture "Carrying Baggage" Outside of the Communities of Permaculture 18:40 "There is something to be said about having an identity and feeling a part of something larger and being able to talk to people in your own group and have your own culture. There is a lot of people running around talking about permaculture who don't really know what they are doing and the people who are in the field of horticulture and ag, can tell that these people don't know what they are talking about. And hell, there's a lot I don't know about. We're just barely beginning to understand what species grow well together and why. It would be nice to know why, it's hard to figure out even in a scientific study. It's very hard to prove cooperation, competition, allelopathy. How are we, lay people in our backyards, going to figure this out? Through good observation, trial and error, and putting ourselves in the place of humility, that's how we'll learn, otherwise we're fooling ourselves. Permaculture has a history, Bill Mollison was a prime example of overselling permaculture. I'm a fan, but we have to be careful what we claim. I think we claim too much in my book about self maintenance." Being Accountable, Self Referential Reading Materials 22:50 Do you think it's important for the next wave of practitioners and authors to have that kind of accountability? "Absolutely. The lack of that accountability in Mollison's and other peoples writing has in a hindered the movement in big way. it is one of the big issues iv'e seen in permaculture. Really poor or nonexistent social system design, i'd like us all to be accountable for what we do. Someone needs to actually do the study...lets see what works and what didn't. If we're going on a wing and a prayer and not looking back and saying 'that didn't work, that didn't work, lets improve'...we're not going to make it folks, we're fooling ourselves. We don't have systems for accountability in permaculture. We don't have accountability for permaculture teaching, so many systems I've observed in the last 32 years...I've seen so many systems fail because of lack of or poor social system design." I really liked it, passionate guy.