DIY compost tea brewing

Discussion in 'Planting, growing, nurturing Plants' started by Peter Warne, Jan 4, 2006.

  1. Peter Warne

    Peter Warne Junior Member

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    This follows on from the thread started by Murray, asking for feedback on the compost tea article. I thought it was interesting and practical enough to deserve its own new thread.

    I looked aroung the Net for compost tea brewers and they cost, starting at about $US135 if I remember for a 5 gal one from the USA. For us Aussies that means enormous shipping costs added. Then they run up to many thousands depending on the size.

    But I also found this article offering a DIY method, written by Elaine Ingham who is also part of the compost tea venture right here in northern NSW. The local one by the way costs over $3000, so I won't be setting up that one in my garden this week.

    https://www.taunton.com/finegardening/pages/g00030.asp

    I'd like to hear if anyone knows about this system and/or has any experience with it. This version looks do-able and affordable.

    Peter
     
  2. christopher

    christopher Junior Member

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    Peter,

    What a fantastic resource! Dr Ingham has found a really wonderful technique for enhancing soil microbial activity, and the foliar spraying looks promising, too.

    We have the same issues with shipping costs (sometimes up to %40 of the purchase price, like for a solar appropriate washing machine). So locally manufactured systems look like a good way to go. Also, the $$$$ involved in the bought system looks >ouch< to me.

    I saw something like this in Costa Rica at Esecuala Agricultura Region Tropico Humido, buth they used semi-composted leaves from the jungle near where the target plantations existed, as well as soil from the jungle. They used blue plastic drums, like the kind they export large quantities of mollasses with...

    I'd like to hear if anyone has any experience with it, too..

    C
     
  3. derekh

    derekh Junior Member

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    Am I being simplistic or have I missed something important but isn't this just Steiners principles of Biodynamics with a different name ?

    Don't get me wrong I believe in the adage of "feed the soil not the leaves" but "new" ideas aren't always new.

    derek
     
  4. heuristics

    heuristics Junior Member

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    DIY compost tea

    Derek – yes I think you're probably right, and the appeal of the “new” with compost tea compared with Steiner's BD is that BD got a bit of a tinge of “weird” about it cause of the cow horns and lunar influences..... some people, I think, found all that hard to swallow... but here with compost tea, there are the same basic concepts, but given in a more “scientific” package, which is more palatable to some, perhaps.

    Like with the Natural Sequence Farming that is generating so much interest -surely that is just variation of Yeoman's keyline???

    And, like you say – does it really matter? If stuff works, and some people like the concept when it has one “brand", while others prefer it “branded” another way.... ultimately they are all ways to wean farmers (and others) off synthetic chemicals ... and back to more sustainable practices, which is all good.!
     
  5. christopher

    christopher Junior Member

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    Heuristics and Derekh,

    Good point about similarities with BD, but Dr Inghams work is a bit more scientific, you know, atoms, molecules.... chemistry... soil biota... no moon stuff... which probably works.... and I think I can swallow her theories more easily...

    I think I am one of these close minded literalists who because of my limited and suspicious frame of mind just can't get Steiner... tho I have seen some incredible results... and I accept the system works... I just csan't see me out there at midnight, with the cowhorn and the chamomile... I think my bad vibes and disbelief would jinks the whole thing...

    Dr Inghams work looks more scientific to me... and to my terrible closed mind... :lol: , it is more palatable... tho I know BD works.... (Satanic Organic Gardening, sez preacher Bob! Voodoo Farming! :lol: )

    Thanks for pointing the similarities out, though!

    C
     
  6. Ichsani

    Ichsani Junior Member

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    Hi Peter, Christopher, Derek and Heuristics

    ...love the topic.... :D This is blend of personal feild experience, lab work, theory and anecdotal evidence, part plans for honours project. With good intentions.

    ......there sure is alot of expensive equipment out there! Brewing tanks/vats/buckets/thingy-me-bobs...... lots of $$$$......(went and had a look around the net) but microbial brewing is a pretty simple procedure, and while there is a science to it, there is also an art. I think the BD approach is the same thing from a different angle. (Didn't someone mention on this board that the cow horn thing was alot older than Steiner?) Dan Murphy also says that in "Organic Growing with Worms" which uses worm castings for inoculum (same thing different method). Highly recommended book for tea making people (brewers?). It has been discussed at length before in a thread with the same name (I think).

    Good containers can be a make or break for happy microbes, but they don't have to be so expensive!
    ........plastic (food grade, not chemical storage ones) probably recycled 2nd use+ is better to start with (apparently they gas off etc when new, though I don't know how much of a problem it would be.......me thinks a large plastic garbage bin would be servicable after a bit of weathering outdoors...)
    ........all stainless steel is perfect (though can be pretty darn $$$$ unless recycled from previous uses....ie ex commercial fitouts, sinks etc)......
    .......enamelled containers are supposedly an excellent option too..ummm old bathtubs? Good surface area to volume ratio for added gas exchange....
    .......aluminium....no good, Al ions are toxic to 'good' microbes and plants for that matter.......best to steer clear of in my opinion.

    Areators are essential if one doesn't want to stand and stir (yep same as BD 'by hand' mixing)........whatever gets the oxygen in there will do the job, but the oxygen does need to be there! Me thinks there are plenty people here who know alot about pumps..(where are those little waving aquaponics guys? Must be their day off :lol:) I'm sure that there are many areating contraptions possible too.....

    Water quality.......yep chlorinated tap water is designed to reduce microbial populations in drinking water, boiling (bit of a waste of energy) or the simple areation aided gassing off suggested by Ingham work.

    Super pure de-ionised water is actually no good, the water is too chemically and energetically 'hungry' and devoid of trace salts. Which is only good for growing pure culture in the lab, not the kind of growth that you want in a tea.

    Brews don't travel or store well at all despite what is said, composts are slightly better in terms of survival rate, however this is where I have biodiversity concerns around the practice. Because of the sheer size of the microbial biomass made and the locational diversity already present in the soil, I'm becoming a believer in on-site or local preparation. This is in order to err on the side of caution in terms of dispersing certain microbial communities great distances. But thats another topic!

    .........rainwater and springwater probably much better (highly reccommended by BD).......bore water depends on the dissolved solutes and could be detrimental (this one can't be answered easily by me here)

    Inoculum (the best bit!, On-site, learn to make your own, rebell and don't buy pre-made! ummm possibly something more like 'Keep It Local' for a less fanatical take :lol: )..........the art of compost making, will pass the topic for sheer amount of know how on the board :D .

    I'm in the middle of a batch of fungi dominated compost destined for soil building and pot plants (small back yard!) and plan to make a bacterial based leaf tea from the next compost batch for this year. I'm also thinking of inoculating the next layer of mulch to go on with the tea (in a weathered plastic tub). I have found that fish emulsion as foliar feed helps strengthen the good communities already present on the leaf (I don't really get leaf diseases). Will post how it goes if any one is interested, but it will only be a small batch.

    For large scale application one has to apparently be careful not to pulverise the cells with high pressure systems. I think the broadacre BD camp will have excellent advice on good applicator systems if any are interested.

    I have also heard alot about morning/night/moon applications, but I'm a 'when the weather is right' kind of girl. As long as its a low UV day with a bit of humidity preferebly having rained recently, you know, those nice gardening days when everything smells like it is growing.

    In terms of brewing, as with compost making, one's nose is one's best asset. Off compost makes off tea.

    Feeding wise, I use a bit of blood and bone for readily available nitrogen and a bit of molasses for free sugars (carbon) if the compost is old, otherwise I just make a neat tea because I can't use large volumes.. Urea is also used and the worm book mentioned above has recipies and ratios with molasses. I tend to use a 'bit', so more by feel than recipie. Too much sugar will mean a yeast dominated batch if the oxygen drops.....and that means alcohol which is no good. I tend to work on less is better cause I have a small space. Apparently there is a limit to freshness and size of the tea too.

    In short :lol: sounds and is, very do able.

    Ichsani :D
     
  7. Richard on Maui

    Richard on Maui Junior Member

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    Fabulous topic for sure. I am really interested in the difference between a fungal dominated compost and a bacterial one and their various appropriate uses... For some reason, in all my years (I guess not that many) of making and being interested in compost, and reading anything that had anything about compost in it, I never came across this concept until the last year or so, in fact, about the time I first heard from friends about Elaine Ingram. A while back I read something by Janet Milington where she talks about pidgeon peas as chop and drop pioneers being great for converting degraded pastures to food forests, because their woody biomass promotes fungus (which trees like more) rather than bacteria (which grasslands seem to prefer, except for bamboo's, which have fungal associations...?)
    I must admit, that when I first heard about the compost teas and the starter cultures that you can buy, I did suspect that the whole thing was so much snake oil.
    I've used compost and manure teas for years, but never worried too much about aerating them. Maybe stirring them about this way and that or a bit of a lark. I wish I could find the time to try out this method, and do some controls...
     
  8. Ichsani

    Ichsani Junior Member

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    Hi Richard,

    Different foods yeild different types of microbes, so it seems to follow. The 'fungi' compost that I make is similar to leaf litter (I use mainly Jacaranda litter as thats what I have alot of) and takes longer to develop but has visible hyphae of the white and fluffy kind, with fruiting mushrooms that appear and disappear quickly. This mix has few worms in it, but lots below.

    I also make a faster compost with coffee grounds, fruit pulp, a handful of lime (trial and error otherwise it goes sour very easily, I think its the high level of citrus pulp (sugar and acids) in the mix) plus a handful or two of blood and bone. I have found this mix cooks very quickly and so has to be turned regularly. It developes into more humus like soil, and has an enormous number of worms. This is the stuff that I'm going to make into a 'bacteria' tea and trial it on my plant leaves, as well as a patch of grass over in the park. This is the only distinction that I have in order of 'type' of compost.

    Interesting about the pigeon pea. I think there's alot more work to be done in the area. There are lots and lots and lots of microbes (~10^8 cells per cm^2 is not uncommon in humus soil) and lots and lots of diversity.

    There has been some confusion of terms in some of the stuff that I have read. Compost tea, as in 'mix compost and water strain and apply' doesn't need areation. It still works, but has lower populations in the water.

    Brewing the compost in order to increase the microbe population in the water does need aeration and some food to work well, because its in a different environment ie water, and one wants the bugs to grow, and not just disperse out of the inoculum. But having said that, tea (soak and strain, quick method not hours or days) still works perfectly well for small scale (at my place anyway).

    Off to make dinner

    Ichsani
     
  9. christopher

    christopher Junior Member

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    Ichsani,

    No, no, don't go to dinner! The lesson has just started! How exciting! (dang, me thinks she's gone....)

    I always like it when you share. You don't post often (often enough :razz: ), but when you do..... heavy, thoughtful, substantial, loaded with info....

    Thank you for your input!

    C
     
  10. Peter Warne

    Peter Warne Junior Member

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    Brilliant inputs from everyone. I've learned more from this thread than any for a long while. It has really sorted a few basics on compost - I'm going to make a new compost heap with leaf litter and some earth from our rainforest patches, and try that round the fruit trees - immediately. When I get organised to make the compost tea, I'll try the fungi type with the rainforest stuff and a bacterial one with regular compost &/or worm castings.

    Interesting that some of the main bits and pieces that have been offered here come back to what I learned in my PDC course 2 1/2 years ago, about using worm castings, but in particular worm juice as a foliar spray. I didn't see the point then, so I didn't act on it, despite getting a bathtub worm farm going. Now I get it, and the whole worm farm takes on a new importance. Better late than never.

    Thanks everybody.

    Peter
     
  11. heuristics

    heuristics Junior Member

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    DIY compost tea

    Can we see pics on this project pls Peter?
    (request from an incurable sticky-beak!)
     
  12. Peter Warne

    Peter Warne Junior Member

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    Heuristics,
    Gladly, but which particular project? The worm farm is primitive and I haven't put it to much good use in the two years I've had it. The worms seem happy but, given their population. I can certainly provide a pic, since we've just got ourselves a digital camera and I'm confident that with my wife's help the technicalities of posting a pic can be managed. But I reckong the interesting stuff will be when I get the tea brewing set up going, which may not be for a little while, given the current period of fiscal restraint. I have just paid the final installment on a long wanted water pump which I laid by for at the local rural suppliers, and I'm resolved to hold back on any less-than-essential spending for a while.

    So ... ... for a start I'll try a pic of something on our property - shortly

    Peter
     

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