For me one of the things that stands out in this Election is that a vote for either of the two major parties is a vote for the status quo of our society. It is a vote that says, 'I am basically OK with the way we are headed, I am basically OK with the general tone of society but one or the other can offer me (as an individual) a little more than the other'. They both operate with the same level of consciousness that has bought us to this point over the last umpteen years. No matter how many times they tell us it is time for a new way, they are not in a position to offer a new way. Whilst I agree that the Greens are far from perfect, and not wholly outside of this same paradigm, they do offer a divergence and a point of difference. They do offer us a shift towards a new level of consciousness. A step in a more sustainable direction. The fact that even the Greens cannot make any real inroads into this current political/cultural paradigm, even with a fully stated policy platform certainly makes the acceptance and uptake of Municipal Libertarianism seem like a fancifully distant dream. But I believe that we need to hold a clear vision for how we would like to see our futures and the futures of our Children and generations to come. That we must work towards making those visions real, regardless of how long it takes us to get there. That we must take the next steps when ever we are given the opportunity to do so, no matter how small those steps seem. The journey of a thousand miles begins with the first step... I don't think that anyone disagrees with Len's thoughts on the need for us as individuals and as groups and as a society to follow some basic principles/ethics/morals. Do they? I actually believe that most people, certainly most of the ones I meet, do actually internally believe in and hold dear the very ethics we are talking about. But, many of them don't have the skills to be able to live by them for many varied and different reasons. I can think of no one I know who deliberately sets out to harm people, or the environment. And yet their every day actions do. I include myself in that. I don't think we do need a new set of ethics, I think we need the freedom to express the ones that most of us innately have. A world run entirely on Economic Growth increasingly removes that sort of freedom from us. It is Unsustainable and it is slowly choking us We don't need a new set of people to take over and start pushing the barrow. We need to tip the barrow over, compost all the crap in it and start growing something together. This two major parties crap is way past it's use-by. They aren't even pushing the barrow down the garden path anymore - they are pushing the flaming thing down a 6 lane Freeway... BAM!
I feel the global economy is about poo its pants big time. (too many people not enough resources and lots of American dreaming) Liberals in power pretending to cure the cost of living pressures, along with upper middle class welfare tax cuts and trying to balance the budget, should see monumental failure and mass unemployment and disillusionment in the myth of the Liberals being good economic managers.( you only need to see them in the 80s to know they cant function in a down turn). Predominantly uneducated mortgage belt, swing voters have a short memory and a deep desire to see pressure relief from their government,they will need to reconfigure their Murdoch fed mythology about the Liberals economic prowess.(hopefully for a generation) Lots of misery disillusionment and decay should hopefully see a swing to the Left and the Greens holding the balance of power at the next change of government in anywhere from 3 to 6 years time. (more likely 6 unless CSIRO predictions of oil price spikes in 2015 prove true). Probably not enough money or time to make some real fundamental changes to infrastructure,rail, internet and renewable power while broadening the tax base to pay for them. The problem will always be a decreasing revenue stream due to tax cuts and an ageing population then add resource depletion and overpopulation and eventually climate change. Its never been a better time to concentrate your efforts into self sufficiency or as close as you can get and build your community. Sit back and watch the men with no vision beyond business as usual take the reins and laugh at their idiocy and cry at your fellow Australians stupidity for listening to uncle Rupert and the 3 word slogans and giving them the power. Try and remain sane. rinse and repeat.
I am reading 'The Long Descent - The User's Guide to the End of the Industrial Age' by John Michael Greer. I am less than a quarter the way through it but it is really improving my understanding of the situation, how we got here and how things might pan out long term. I was feeling really overwhelmed by the feeling of sadness and helplessness for the way our civilisation appears to be going but reading this book is helping me a great deal.
grasshopper you are pointing to aging population we paid our dues in times of high taxes, no bonuses for having babies, no waste solar bonuses we all pay for, in all the you omitted the ever increasing unemployment and jobless people never likely to hold a job and the greens want all dirty industry off shore well they are causing that so more and more unemployment so no taxes to look after those of us who paid our dues for 50 years or more, without our money the country would have gone under decades ago. so now we aren't being looked after at all fingers pointed because some older person prangs with heart attack no mention of pissed younger driver, speed freaks, and some who also have health issues, no just blame to aged for very few issues. and waht do i hear in my left ear is the torries wanting to pay people up to 6k bucks if they hold down a job for 2 years, if we had jobs unemployment would be naturally lower, so while money gets sucked away from public health(not only older people use that) to pay a bonus to people who can get a job. talk about topsy turvey len
I am so cross with both major parties. Yesterday I saw Rudd talking about Syria. Why does he back the Americans? He knows that they are lying. Does he really want to sent Australian soldiers in another war helping to bring Syria down and poison the land with uranium depletion bombs? Why can't he simply tell them to show evidence? Apart from killing thousands of innocent people this adventure can easily lead to WW3. Grasshopper, you are talking about uneducated mortgage belt. But I myself find it extremely difficult to get a handle to Australian politics. The only halfway credible source I know of is the Guardian Aussie page. The friends of the earth publication is good too. I tell you that I do know more about American politic that I do know about Australian politic, simply because there isso little information to be found. The big newspapers never bother to tell you the background or what happened before. They directly begin with what he or she said. Difficult for all those immigrants.
I don't think Grasshopper was blaming old people for anything Len. It was more about the ageing population. Which is a reference to the fact that the average age is rising, which means there is a greater proportion of older people, with a much smaller base of younger people. This has very big impacts on the social structure and 'The Economy'. There is no doubt that an ageing population puts a far greater burden on the health system, for example. There are also some ramifications for pensions and superannuation of course. As you say, there aren't enough young people paying taxes, but that is because compared to the number of older people, there simply aren't enough young people. Unfortunately the dues you paid are not going to be enough. This is not a judgement call, it is just economic reality (an oxymoron if I ever heard one). At least that is my layman's understanding of it...
G'day heftzwecke Yes, it is difficult to convey what is happening in Australian politics (both right now, and at all points in the past and future distant) to people for whom the English language (indeed, the 'Australian' culture) might be one, two or even three languages removed. We have many international friends and colleagues, and for of them the Australian political arena remains a mystery. However, that does not stop us from at least trying to help explain the more intricate details. To do any less would be akin to dismissing our friends as intellectually inept. Yes, I agree. Mainstream commercial media (newspapers, etc.) are appalling bereft of quality journalism, and as such should be approached only for their value as compost. However, there are many (mostly) independent (sometimes even) alternative media outlets available: As much as it is maligned by the political right, the ABC (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) still manages to do a reasonably good job of providing unbiased news and current affairs. In terms of political commentary produced by the ABC, you might like to see (hear/read/engage with) the following: https://www.abc.net.au/radionational/subjects/politics/ https://www.abc.net.au/tv/qanda/ https://www.abc.net.au/votecompass/ https://www.abc.net.au/news/federal-election-2013/ There are other outlets, too, that I believe do a fairly decent job of cutting through the spin and (mostly) providing the facts: https://election.crikey.com.au/ https://theconversation.com/topics/election-2013-issues https://www.themonthly.com.au/topic/politics Finally, there is truly 'independent' media, news by the people, for the people: https://www.indymedia.org.au/ Of course, the normal caveat applies to all the above - you should apply a discriminating mind to everything you see, hear or read. If in doubt, check it out. Generally speaking, and particularly concerning 'political promises', if they sound (read/look) too good to be true, they usually are. I hope the above helps. Cheerio, Markos.
Thanks for the links. I will have a look. Little by little I'll get the hang of it. Guardian actually said that Abbot does not want the national broadband net because Foxtel would lose customers (must be a buddy thing). I think it is only half of the story. It is far easier to govern dumb people than those having a fast internet connection. Australia is not an exception, If you look in any country no matter which of the big parties, there is no change only kicking the can (but there is an end of the street).
The Group Voting Tickets (Senate preference flows) have been available for a few days. This means one is now able to find out to whom one's 'above the line' Senate vote will flow (if it flows at all). My vote for Jo and Beth will pretty much flow to the Greens (via the WikiLeaks candidates), and that's where it will probably stay until it is either a) extinguished, or b) transpires into a seat. For a bit of fun, why not check out where your 'above the line' will flow. You might be surprised ... :nerd:
Hmmm, a fairly likely scenario ... However, we (all 23-odd million of us) could liberate and municipalise the economy by taking back ownership of and responsibility for our local neighbourhoods, then make a fairly quick transition from non-renewables to renewables, and at the same time (Len will love this one) flatten the economy so that those with less end up with more, and vice versa ... Nahhh, I must be dreamin' ... [video=youtube;jL2DH-nKBeA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jL2DH-nKBeA[/video]
good luck mark, i am really with you, need mass take back by a culture that is lawfull and respecting of others. if teh global economy is poop like grasshopper indicated, and hey i am not saying anything different, whilst ever we are in free trade with a floating dollar and aligned with others we will fall also. we are now seeing the big sting in the tail of floating our dollar. damge done. just more local misery now when you add in feel good stuff like CO2 and renewable's. take care a terrible suffering by innocents o/seas hey, and indictment against us all. len
sorry mark missed that bit about a flat economy, but yes very similar except i see it this way we all app' 23 mill' of us are equal in standard and status, with no crime. take care mark len
I'll give you an example of it: I work for local government. While I don't pay in to social security(and nor will I receive it), I do pay in to a government retirement fund(roughly 9.5% of my pay per check). I can retire with 30 years of service. Anybody who started working for a local government that is in the same retirement system within the last 7 years has to work 45 years to get the same benefit. Basically, the new employees are paying more(by working longer) so I can retire and all those that went before me can remain retired. As near as I can tell, most retirement systems are akin to pyramid schemes. I'm not saying that this is a problem with the recipients, it's a problem with the administrators. I feel bad for the people who are stuck paying for my benefits. If the next generation(s) have to work longer, then the system is obviously not sustainable.
yes unmutual, grahame was not saying blame was being laid, but finger pointing gets picked up by many looking for scapegoats, when i started work we had an agreement with the gov' if we worked hard paid the taxes they wanted if we fell on tough times when we retired we would at least have medical and dental, my grandparents used to get free public transport and when needed subsidised taxi's, along with affordable houses, rents (in my early renting days $1- to $14 per week, 2 weeks in advance and leave the place clean and undamaged), affordable power and a telephone service(here telstra no longer has to guarantee cable service even though it is only app' 300 meters away). no get this i started my working life early 60's there was not even a hint of superannuation, on tax we could claim: school costs; dental costs; medical benefits sub' plus the doctors gap. at 37(mid 80's) i started work in a job where they deducted 3.5% super(never heard of it before) so by the time i finished work(health) in 99, there was never going to be enough super to retire on. the gov wasted us older peoples tax contributions. but in marks system or a better oen this would not happen would it?? need to think outside communal living it needs to be aussies 110%(surely you have heard that before it means everybody +) now on pension we can't earn much but then that is the archilles heal hey we have tried through the system to learn something where with not needing a lot of energy we could supplement, or if it burgeoned we could cut the umbilical chord to central link, that was one of their fave' questions if this works and you earn too much to be on the pension, we said lead the way. but they failed last time they even ripped us off with the assistance(longish story). we get no help when we administer child care 200k away in a new society we would all be like a big extended family in a way, also want to be progressive then get the damn lazy pocket lining pollies to get up and create vocational officers who have their finger on the pulse as to what people who can, can do to earn a little extra and take pressure off needing pension increases, but not while pointing out an ever again population it won't happen, mission australia hopeless. so no critisism needed, action needed, yes the aging population has been coming for 60 years now, so don't highlight it, the pollies knew it was coming but then they banned euthanasia hey lol. yes more older people unable to work, less young people with the drive to work, and less jobs to cut pollution. sounds like a terrible recipe for a cake hey? those who can lees cope are the ones who pay for the sting in the tail of the floating economy, also keep in mind the living standard of the country dictates what money a family now(not just a single earner) needs to simply live from week to week, so that then is what the minimum senior hourly rate should be, and if only one person is wanted to go to work in a family then so be it, men mainly worked when i was a kid they worked for around 7 pound to 12 pound a week with lots of deductions no child endowment to talk of and they bought and old car paid rent mortgage, power phone meat and groceries from local shops(no supermarkets). i thought i was doing ok, but it all crashed can't insure against bad times. len
And that is the problem we are seeing with the two old parties Len - no vision for and to the future, no squirrelling away some of the money from the boom times, even when the advice they receive say they should be. The Green at least have the discussion, and put it out there. Tony Abbott actual said and I paraphrase, that they are not interested in long term projects, they want projects that deliver, now in the short term! I know it sounds like I am pushing the Greens, but I'm not that enamoured of them either, it is just that they are the better option for people who give a shit. Big Government is pretty much useless. It is a sweeping generalisation in a world of infinite diversity. It has no understanding of niche. It has no concept of the individual. It is about Standardisation and Homogenisation. It is about Isolation and Division. It is about illusion. It is about mediocrity. It is about Control. It is a farce. We need to come together as communities to live our lives the way we see fit. If we do that there is no reason to think we can't circumvent the Big Government and eventually do away with it. Come on folks lets Rise up!! They can take our lives, but they can never take our Freeeeeedom!!!
yep not just communes a total change to a total community where we look after all and each other, the major's don't have the money so no other party will either, like mark in lots of ways this draconian political system no longer fits. a change most likely never, a secular constitution won't encourage unity all are failing. only so very few of us here who have any sort of insight. we are lambs to the slaughter. me i don't hold much hope the middle east is ready to collapse in out and out blood shed anyhow can only pray for the best and hope that goodness and mercy follows. len
If this proxy war in Syria blows up, it won't matter who gets elected. and it looks that it will. Trade wars, currency wars and then world war. It started years ago and is building to a crescendo.
